****Official LOST Season 4 Discussion (Contains Spoilers)**

[Geff]

Re: ****Official LOST Season 4 Discussion (Contains Spoilers)**

I do think the new people invading the island are Dharma. Naomi had a picture of Penny, and if they aren't Penny's people, then they must be Dharma. During the years of living in their bunkers, they know of Penny through Desmond. That was their key to being trusted. That's why Charlie's dying message is so important. Ben is trying convince everyone that they'll kill them all because they are his worst enemy. Locke wants nothing to do with them because the island is what makes him whole again. Due to actions taken by Ben or even Dharma, everyone thinks the passengers of 815 are dead, because of the staged wreakage in the sea somewhere. Ben and Locke are against anyone leaving the island, and anyone trying to help. It makes me think that the people that actually leave the island, the Oceanic 6, aren't doing so because they want to, but because they're forced to. They could be removed from the picture due to being threats. Dharma wants to remove these people so they can continue their experiments. Now the Oceanic 6 have to deal with it once being back home. I don't think it would drive someone to suicide, like James Sawyer, but John Locke and Jin, definately. Jack knows he's headed for the same fate as the suicide, so he wants to go back. Saving and fixing people is what he does. I can't help but think that what really drives Jack over the deep end is learning his half sister and nephew are still there.

[Geff]

Re: ****Official LOST Season 4 Discussion (Contains Spoilers)**

Just reading this thread reminds me why I love this show. It makes you think. The more crazy and unexplainable stuff becomes the more I like it, because I know they aren't just going to abandon big questions, and trying to figure it out in the meantime is fun.

I'm totally with you on that. This show is such a mind...screw, it's just awesome. Once again it had me thinking, Dharma are the good guys. They just wanted to build their own paradise. The problem was, they did so on a supernatural island. They made the island impossible to locate so their dream of utopia wouldn't be messed with. Then a couple bad apples, the group that came to be known as the Others, turned on them. Then a disgruntled kid, Ben, became the Others' leader and turned things completely ugly. Anyone wishing to leave the island becomes an enemy. He uses his resources to control everyone. Ben even controls one of the supernatural powers of the island, being Jacob. Then the 815 flight crashes the party. They manage to survive, and Dharma tries to help, dropping rations for them and even trying to communicate with them. Dharma realizes that they may have an ally against Ben, and sends in the troops, which I believe are the people dropping in now. Dharma is back to take what's theirs. The problem is Ben is building his new army, which is headed by an unsuspecting John Locke. Locke believes these people are here to take him from his new home, where he's basically invincible. So now we have Locke's group, against the people coming in, and Jack's group. I think Dharma's plan is to not only rescue the 815 flight, but to use them to end Ben's reign of power. That's why Hurley sided with the wrong people. While Charlie's dying message was meant to help, it swayed Hurley from the right group. I think that Ben and Locke will end up attacking the outsiders coming in, then Ben will use their helicopters to transport the threats out of his island, including Ben's two biggest threats to ruling over everyone, Jack and Locke. Locke is basically what Ben would be if he were good, while Jack is the man of science he doesn't need anymore.

[Brandon13]

Re: ****Official LOST Season 4 Discussion (Contains Spoilers)**

If I had to guess I'd say Locke too.

It's just weird though because the funeral home was in a black neighborhood. Maybe the writers just did that to throw everyone off but I doubt it.

[CMH]

Re: ****Official LOST Season 4 Discussion (Contains Spoilers)**

It's just weird though because the funeral home was in a black neighborhood. Maybe the writers just did that to throw everyone off but I doubt it.

Maybe Locke met up with Walt once he was back in the States?

Not sure why Walt wouldn't show up to the funeral, though. Maybe Michael forced him not to go.

Just all guesses, obviously.

[CMH]

Re: ****Official LOST Season 4 Discussion (Contains Spoilers)**

People have brought up that the casket was small. So I've seen the Ben and Walt guesses - though Walt doesn't make much sense to me because he's going to be a grown man in like five months. Have you seen the kid?

Now, what if Locke lost mobility again and lost his legs?

Or if not Locke, maybe someone else suffered damage to their legs.

[Brandon13]

Re: ****Official LOST Season 4 Discussion (Contains Spoilers)**

I've read speculation that the person in the casket could be someone we haven't met yet. Who knows?

[fistofrage]

Re: ****Official LOST Season 4 Discussion (Contains Spoilers)**

The only problem I have with this idea is Charlie's ghost or Hurley's imagination telling him "they need you". If they're happy living eternally in paradise I think they're ok w/o Hurley.

Thats the thing though, they may have all decided to stay under the premise of eternal life in paradise, but they may be trapped now in an eternal Hell and need Hurley & the other Oceanic 6 to save them.

The other thing about the coffin is that maybe its a member not of the Oceanic 6. And thus would be living under a new identity, because outside of the oceanic 6, everyone else has been declared dead. There would be no friends and family attending the funeral because they already had the funeral for the person once already when the plane crashed.

So, the funeral could have upset Jack so much because somehow he convinced them to leave the island and give up eternal life. So he blames himself for the death.

[ehh]

Re: ****Official LOST Season 4 Discussion (Contains Spoilers)**

I still think the person in the coffin is Locke because they are all eventually forced off the Island and Locke just falls to pieces without its healing power. He has no family and someone like Kate wouldn't dare go to his funeral because time and again he has (and will continue) to jeopardize any chance of getting off the island.

I'm reaching but thats what I've come up with.

The beauty of the coffin scenario is that it can literally be anyone. The "J" in the newspaper clip does narrow it down but we have no idea what characters may fall out with each other in the future. It could be Sawyer for all we know, maybe he does something terrible to Kate at one point in the future. Judging by the S3 finale and the "He'll wonder where I am," line from Kate I don't think she's referring to Sawyer.

[ehh]

Re: ****Official LOST Season 4 Discussion (Contains Spoilers)**

I think they want to remain quiet because the people who stayed on the island made a conscious decision to remain on the island "paradise". I think they were granted eternal life if they stayed on the island. If the people who got off tell the real story that the others are still alive, the island would evcentually be found and everything would crumble.

How can people be granted eternal life on the Island when people die there? There are obviously special powers for certain people (Locke, Mikhail) but obviously not everyone.

[Coug00]

Re: ****Official LOST Season 4 Discussion (Contains Spoilers)**

One other thing to think about with the Oceanic 6. The motivation for Charlie to go down to the looking glass to die was due to Desmond's other vision of Claire and Aaron getting on a helicopter and being rescued. Without him going down there, they don't get on the helicopter.

Are those two part of the Oceanic 6 or is this a later rescue when the Oceanic 6 go back? Or is it not a rescue at all and Claire is being taken to the freighter for some reason?

[fistofrage]

Re: ****Official LOST Season 4 Discussion (Contains Spoilers)**

How can people be granted eternal life on the Island when people die there? There are obviously special powers for certain people (Locke, Mikhail) but obviously not everyone.

Wasn't Rose's cancer healed? She has made references to never wanting to leave the island. The Island works for people with faith. The non-believers leave the island. All I know is that the one guy who was posing as the doctor that recruited Juliet is probably as old as that ancient ruin of that statue. There is no doubt in my mind that to some people, the island serves as a fountain of youth.

[ehh]

Re: ****Official LOST Season 4 Discussion (Contains Spoilers)**

Wasn't Rose's cancer healed? She has made references to never wanting to leave the island. The Island works for people with faith. The non-believers leave the island. All I know is that the one guy who was posing as the doctor that recruited Juliet is probably as old as that ancient ruin of that statue. There is no doubt in my mind that to some people, the island serves as a fountain of youth.

I guess the faith/non-believer angle could work but it'd be a stretch. When the plane first crashed Locke was already healed - he didn't need faith. That event is what caused him to have faith and obviously let him survive a gunshot to the abdomen.

Didn't the producers say that time travel was not involved but that time was "different" on the Island?

[Chief Illinimac]

Re: ****Official LOST Season 4 Discussion (Contains Spoilers)**

I guess the faith/non-believer angle could work but it'd be a stretch. When the plane first crashed Locke was already healed - he didn't need faith. That event is what caused him to have faith and obviously let him survive a gunshot to the abdomen.

Didn't the producers say that time travel was not involved but that time was "different" on the Island?

Yeah something like that. I'm starting to put my faith in the theory of the guy who plays Hurley where they are clones or something like that. I think that would make a lot of sense, but I would also think Jack/Hurley/Kate/whoever gets off the island would know they were clones or had clones once they were off, so maybe not... ugh this show hurts my brain.

[fistofrage]

Re: ****Official LOST Season 4 Discussion (Contains Spoilers)**

I guess the faith/non-believer angle could work but it'd be a stretch. When the plane first crashed Locke was already healed - he didn't need faith. That event is what caused him to have faith and obviously let him survive a gunshot to the abdomen.

Didn't the producers say that time travel was not involved but that time was "different" on the Island?

Well I think the healing comes first and the faith comes second. So Rose was feeling better and attributed it to the island. Locke could walk and attributes it to the island. The island has shown itself and the people who believe reap the benefits and their faith keeps it going. The people who have dismissed the powers of the island and have no faith don't get the benefits.

[Chief Illinimac]

Re: ****Official LOST Season 4 Discussion (Contains Spoilers)**

Well I think the healing comes first and the faith comes second. So Rose was feeling better and attributed it to the island. Locke could walk and attributes it to the island. The island has shown itself and the people who believe reap the benefits and their faith keeps it going. The people who have dismissed the powers of the island and have no faith don't get the benefits.

It's not that I don't like the theory, but I think the big picture will be somewhat more realistic/less "religious" than just "believe in the island, and it will save you."