*** LOST: Season 5 Discussion***

[soltrain]

Re: *** LOST: Season 5 Discussion***

Interesting because I didn't know they had traveled to the future during the flash/jumps.

Yes, but Ethan should be dead - so I'm confused as to how he shot Locke.

[Coug00]

Re: *** LOST: Season 5 Discussion***

Yes, but Ethan should be dead - so I'm confused as to how he shot Locke.

Locke was shot while they were still time jumping. He was in the past when Ethan shot him, then jumped forward and Richard helped remove the bullet.

[dave374]

Re: *** LOST: Season 5 Discussion***

why? you think locke is jacob or something?

I think Jack is Jacob.

[boomhauertjs]

Re: *** LOST: Season 5 Discussion***

As to whether or not Jack should detonate the nuke, I'm saying no. Yeah, it would erase the crash and the Oceanic passengers would return to their normal lives. However, wasn't the island the place where many of them got redemption for their past lives (Ecko, Ana Lucia, Charlie)? I think for that reason the crash needs to happen.

[soltrain]

Re: *** LOST: Season 5 Discussion***

Locke was shot while they were still time jumping. He was in the past when Ethan shot him, then jumped forward and Richard helped remove the bullet.

Ah, yes. That was when they were jumping for what it seemed every two minutes.

[Leon]

Re: *** LOST: Season 5 Discussion***

Well, that left me hanging.

Clearly, we're upon "The Incident" mentioned in the Dharma videos. Can't wait for next week!

[fistofrage]

Re: *** LOST: Season 5 Discussion***

As to whether or not Jack should detonate the nuke, I'm saying no. Yeah, it would erase the crash and the Oceanic passengers would return to their normal lives. However, wasn't the island the place where many of them got redemption for their past lives (Ecko, Ana Lucia, Charlie)? I think for that reason the crash needs to happen.

I think that might be out the window now.

It would appear that the Losties that we know are all going to have to die so the people on flight 815 can live as if the crash never happened.

We'll see if thats the case but it appears to be headed there. If so, I'll be disappointed. But once you get to real time, the present, you can't have 2 of the same people running around with free will. Can't work. So the original Losties must die.

And I don't have time to type out everything, but if this is what is happening, it really conflicts with the time travel that the show was trying to "explain" and really has entered the realm of alternative dimensions.

Don't think about the show as watching things from the Losties point of view, but rather think about it as a History book about things that is already written. We're just seeing what all went down in 1977 as we would 1978, 1979, etc. Its all History. It already happened. Now it would appear that Jack detonates the bomb and changes what happened so flight 815 can't crash, at that point it stopped being History and became free will. You have gone off the timeline and created another dimension. Because you have to remember between 2004 and 2007 the Oceanic 6 were back in the US doing whatever they were doing. History was written, not just island History- World History. So if Jack does unwind all of this. Somewhere out there will be a world where 815 crashed and then there will be the world that they show us where 815 landed in LA.

Needless to say I sincerely hope they don't go down that path.

[boomhauertjs]

Re: *** LOST: Season 5 Discussion***

It would appear that the Losties already were back in 1977 because someone had to have warned Dharma to get off the island in the "original 1977". We know that Dharma evacuated the island in the original 1977 because Dr. Chang made his wife and Miles leave.

[fistofrage]

Re: *** LOST: Season 5 Discussion***

It would appear that the Losties already were back in 1977 because someone had to have warned Dharma to get off the island in the "original 1977". We know that Dharma evacuated the island in the original 1977 because Dr. Chang made his wife and Miles leave.

Yeah, and thats where this whole thing gets sticky. Everything that has happened on the island going back to 1954 or whenever that was really has something to do with the Losties going back and travelling through time. So it kind of creates a "Circular Reference".

Its like asking why the Losties crashed. They crashed because they went back in time and created a chain of events. They went back in time because they crashed. Where's the starting point on a circle?

[CMH]

The starting point is difficult. It's still chicken and the egg with this and if time is not linear it doesn't have to be explained.

I do agree that this cannot end with them happily landing in LA. It won't make sense. We are still seeing that everything happens because of the Losties. They created the Incident.

If the show moves off this track it would be a mistake. A mistake they will have a hard time explaining. So, with Jack's nonsense and the constant talk of things can change, I continue to sit worried that Lost will change their tune and let things happen differently.

The two hour finale is called the Incident so it's coming. I guess what's left is trying to find out why all of this is happening. Why tell us this story? It can't be just to show that time is circular and the Losties were following a predetermined path. There has to be more, right? A moral of some sort.

[CMH]

Re: *** LOST: Season 5 Discussion***

It's also looking like early theories a few of us shared might prove true.

That hydrogen bomb is what causes the sickness. Just trying to fit things in here.

There is no huge hole in the ground in 2003. The button still needs to be pushed. So, something happens that releases that energy. How do they build the field that holds it? Why even build it if the energy was never released.

If the energy is so dangerous, why ddnt they just use the safe key? It seemed to have done the trick just fine. See my confusion here?

There was this need to hold the energy and a fail safe key to stop it from causing havoc. If you have the solution (key), why the need to have people push a button? Because if they don't push, then it causes craziness. Just use the key and stop the energy.

Or maybe we just dont know what the release of that energy has really done? Though, we've seen up to three years after and the world seems just dandy.

Confused.

[boomhauertjs]

Re: *** LOST: Season 5 Discussion***

There was this need to hold the energy and a fail safe key to stop it from causing havoc. If you have the solution (key), why the need to have people push a button? Because if they don't push, then it causes craziness. Just use the key and stop the energy.

Confused.

Dharma used the button as an experiment to see if people would go crazy pushing it (remember the Pearl Station and the monitors and notebooks).

[CMH]

Re: *** LOST: Season 5 Discussion***

Dharma used the button as an experiment to see if people would go crazy pushing it (remember the Pearl Station and the monitors and notebooks).

I knew someone would bring this up. You fell into my trap.

Why give unstable people (people that have been locked up in a hole for months) an opportunity to cause havoc by not pushing a button?

We know that not pushing the button causes a huge problem. Desmond nearly witnessed it and crashed Flight 815. Locke, Charlie, Eko and Desmond witnessed it a second time before Desmond used the fail safe key.

If it's just a test, why does this test cause such havoc if failed? You can't have psychological tests that if failed could kill everyone. Chang knew that the energy was deadly. It was imperative that the button be pushed.

Yet, there was a key that stopped that energy or released it in one shock wave. Whatever it was, it saved the world. We haven't been given any reason to believe otherwise.

Why have this key that saves the world and not use it? Why tell people you need to push this button while risking the possibility that they do not and could kill people?

There's something missing and I can only assume that we'll learn that in the S5 finale.

[fistofrage]

Re: *** LOST: Season 5 Discussion***

It's also looking like early theories a few of us shared might prove true.

That hydrogen bomb is what causes the sickness. Just trying to fit things in here.

There is no huge hole in the ground in 2003. The button still needs to be pushed. So, something happens that releases that energy. How do they build the field that holds it? Why even build it if the energy was never released.

If the energy is so dangerous, why ddnt they just use the safe key? It seemed to have done the trick just fine. See my confusion here?

There was this need to hold the energy and a fail safe key to stop it from causing havoc. If you have the solution (key), why the need to have people push a button? Because if they don't push, then it causes craziness. Just use the key and stop the energy.

Or maybe we just dont know what the release of that energy has really done? Though, we've seen up to three years after and the world seems just dandy.

Confused.

So where exactly is/was the bomb?

The bomb in 1977 was underneath the Dharma right? They went through those tennels to get there.

Then they are allegedly going to move it.

So they move it into the Swan? Where it is sitting inside a cement bunker.

They have a failsafe key that can release the bombs energy because by 2004 or whatever that bomb is probably cracked severely and that stuff leaks out.

My guess is that they have to release just a little bit of energy out of there every 108 minutes so the bomb will over a very long period of time will become void of energy. By releasing just a little bit every 108 minutes because the pressure inside the bunker would build up to the point that without releaseing it, it would blow up, it was enough to make it so women on the island could not bear children as a side effect. They had the fail safe key that could release it all at once with chatastrophic effects of course.

I don't think they had them press the button every 108 minutes just out of a psychological test. And you bring up another good point Yankee, why trust insane people to push a button. Why not set up an automatic device monitored by scientists.

1/2 of the stuff that goes on on the island seems like a 1st class operation like the submarine, fleet of vehicles, heavy equipment. And then the next minute everything is rinky dink and totally given to chance.

[CMH]

Re: *** LOST: Season 5 Discussion***

That's a good theory. Releasing the energy a bit at a time every 108 minutes.

The only woman still on the Island would be the Others and those woman suffer the effects of that energy and can no longer bear children (though, I guess we need to wonder when Charles and Eloise have Daniel, right? Probably off the Island?).

It makes sense.

So, assuming that Lost stays on track here and everything happens as it happened, then does Jack die during this process? Does he become Jacob as a result? The assumed leader for saving the Others? Is Jacob ever mentioned by the Others in the 50's or 70's? I can't recall.

Richard says he watched all of them die. So they have to die. This would seem like the best time for it to happen. Or maybe they die during the Purge. But they die. Richard's comment didn't make it seem like natural causes.