*** LOST: Season 5 Discussion***

[Brandon13]

Re: *** LOST: Season 5 Discussion***

I just dont understand how that "man" in the beginning could be the smoke monster and why would he WANT to kill Jacob, let alone find a loophole.

I'm pretty convinced that it's more or less a battle of good versus evil. Jacob representing good and the other man representing evil. Similar to the same battle present in the Bible.

There are definite religious overtones.

[ehh]

Re: *** LOST: Season 5 Discussion***

The first scene on the beach with Jacob and Random Guy was huge, everyone should go back and rewatch it as it makes a lot more sense after seeing the entire episode.

My guess is that scene is from back in the 1500's or whenever, it looks like the Black Rock coming into shore and Random Guy is pissed at Jacob for bringing more people to the Island and says something to the affect of "it always ends the same, they fight and then they kill each other," as if Jacob and Random Guy have played this game or done this experiment before. It's as if Jacob is determined to find a group of people who can survive the Island and prove Random Guy wrong, that's why he's seen hand selecting the Losties in flashbacks. Though I don't understand why Random Guy wants to kill Jacob, I guess we'll find that out in S6. Is it as simple as God vs Lucifer?

So was Smokie pretending to be Locke that entire time? We've never seen Smokie assume one shape for so long before, usually it's a quick flash so I'm not sold. Maybe it's Locke from the alternate time path? Dunno on that one.

As for the other Losties and the nuke, well it looks like the writers will have free reign on where to head for S6 storylines.

[Gizmo]

Re: *** LOST: Season 5 Discussion***

http://tunedin.blogs.time.com/2009/05/14/lostwatch-everything-that-rises-must-converge-eventually-right/

This is a pretty good summary. Next year can't get here any sooner. lol

[VanCitySportsGuy]

Re: *** LOST: Season 5 Discussion***

There will be lots to discuss in the coming days/weeks/months but I was disappointed in the season finale. There was nothing surprising about the final scene. The past couple of episodes have lead to Jack trying to set off the bomb and that's what happened. Lost is known for its shocking twists so I was disappointed when I didn't get one at the end.

I am interested to find out what the first scene will be next season. Will the Losties still be on the Island or at LAX? I'm going to be upset if we find out the bomb didn't change anything and a large portion of the final season is about Jack and company trying to get off the Island.

Elizabeth Mitchell and Sonya Walger have both landed major roles on new TV shows so there's a chance we won't see either of them next season.

At this point, is Walt even a major player to the storyline of Lost? Despite the early hype, I have a feeling the answer is no.

[~LiverpoolRed~]

Re: *** LOST: Season 5 Discussion***

So the force in the cabin was never Jacob. He was always in the statue. Smokie was the force that John and Ben felt in the cabin previously.

This is just a guess on my part.

Did you see when Bram points out the damage to the ash ring around Jacobs cabin? Ilana goes in and says that he hasn't been there for "some time" but that "someone else" has been using it.

In Man Behind the Curtain, Locke breaks the ash ring when Ben takes him to see Jacob. It's just Ben talking to an empty chair. Then we hear "help me" and things start flying around the room. Well what if this is when Jacob's enemy comes into the Cabin? Maybe he and Jacob tussled a bit and that's what caused all that commotion.

[poster]

Re: *** LOST: Season 5 Discussion***

Amazing episode. Loved Jacob's character. I thought Jacob was in the 316 cargo myself, was pretty shocked when it was Locke.

Loved how Locke (or whomever is now Locke) manipulated Ben in the last scene, making him want to kill Jacob. Usually the other way around.

[Money99]

Re: *** LOST: Season 5 Discussion***

I'm pretty convinced that it's more or less a battle of good versus evil. Jacob representing good and the other man representing evil. Similar to the same battle present in the Bible.

There are definite religious overtones.

Absolutely. I'm a Christian and I couldn't help but notice all the symbolism.

It was blatantly obvious that this is a God vs Satan setup. The 'Man' was wearing black while Jacob was wearing white.

And did anyone else notice how the "Lost" title at the beginning of shows was written in White with a black background, but at the end of this finale it was the opposite?

I'm still not sure if 'the man' is the smoke monster. But probably.
And we know he's the person that is disguising himself as those who were dead on the island.
Which makes me wonder if Claire is dead or just memorized by meeting her father (without knowing he's really the devil).

Anyway, I can't say I'm really that pleased with how this has all turned out. In the beginning it was about science and mystery of real people conspiring for their own gains.
Now it's turned into a supernatural battle of good and evil where the powers that be have infinite abilities. Everything can now be explained as divine intervention.

I'm still interested in how things play out - things like the 'loophole', the ash, etc.
But the show has jumped the shark for me in a way, and I'm not as inquisitive as I was at the beginning. This show has gone from CSI to Harry Potter. I'm basically going to shut my brain off now and enjoy it for the fantasy show it is.

[Money99]

Re: *** LOST: Season 5 Discussion***

This is just a guess on my part.

Did you see when Bram points out the damage to the ash ring around Jacobs cabin? Ilana goes in and says that he hasn't been there for "some time" but that "someone else" has been using it.

In Man Behind the Curtain, Locke breaks the ash ring when Ben takes him to see Jacob. It's just Ben talking to an empty chair. Then we hear "help me" and things start flying around the room. Well what if this is when Jacob's enemy comes into the Cabin? Maybe he and Jacob tussled a bit and that's what caused all that commotion.

Or maybe that was Jacob's enemy in the seat all along. Maybe the ash was keeping the devil out. But then the ring was broken and he's escaped?

In regards to Ben, his role is eerily similar to that of Judas'. I have a feeling that Jacob wanted to be killed and his death will spur something much greater - similar to Jesus.

[~LiverpoolRed~]

Re: *** LOST: Season 5 Discussion***

It was blatantly obvious that this is a God vs Satan setup. The 'Man' was wearing black while Jacob was wearing white.

And did anyone else notice how the "Lost" title at the beginning of shows was written in White with a black background, but at the end of this finale it was the opposite?

It seems like it goes all the way back to when Locke was playing backgammon with Walt during the beginning of the series. Locke is teaching him to play and he says there is a light side and a dark side. I think the game represents the bigger picture of Lost. Last night we learned that it is a struggle between a light side and a dark side. Hence the white shirt and black shirt.

[CMH]

Re: *** LOST: Season 5 Discussion***

The show was always throwing in religion. There have been religious characters, religious undertones, religious themes. It's all there. (ie: Eko, Adam & Eve, just to name ones that just popped into my head).

But, I think that it is definitely a good vs. evil story, which is fine with me. There has to be a bigger meaning and Lost finally gave it to us.

Carlton and Damon both said that after the finale (and the S6 premiere) we will have all the information we need to fully understand what the smoke monster is and where Lost is actually headed.

I think we have 75% of that understanding. The smoke monster is more than likely that man played by Titus (good actor).

I'm gonna take the reverse of what someone else mentioned. See, Jacob is trying to prove the Man wrong. The Man is the one that is stubborn, not Jacob. The Man believes that people, mankind, is incapable of progression. They are savages, killing beasts, and no matter what they will eventually turn to their weapons to kill each other (which is ironic because the Man wants to kill Jacob, but I digress). Anyway, this is what Rose is alluding to. She asks why do they keep trying when all they're gonna do is use their guns and keep beating up on each other. I'm not saying Rose is evil, but that was the symbolic connection with the theme of the episode.

Jacob on the other hand believes otherwise. He brings people to the Island because he wants to prove to the Man that people are capable of redemption. With every new visitor comes a lesson. They learn from the past. In some ways, history doesn't repeat itself, though the Man believes that history does repeat itself (you know the saying).

Well, this goes into the redemption theory that people threw around. The producers have never said anyone was wrong when stating that people die because they are redeemed. It's actually true. And who kills them? Well, the smoke monster - who we should assume is the Man (remember, the smoke monster can take any form, so why should we assume that the Man talking to Jacob isn't the Smoke Monster in a man's form? I'm going to say it is). The smoke monster kills anyone that finds redemption and he does it because he does not accept that man can be redeemed. They are proving him wrong so he acts out against it.

Jacob always knew that the Man would find his loophole. He never denies it, even in the opening scene. He states: "I'll be here waiting." He knows that the loophole will be found and he probably knows how it's done. So, at different points in time he connects certain people that he believes will be able to rectify the situation. The Man thinks he has the upperhand because he found the loophole, but he doesn't know that Jacob is one step ahead (and I'm assuming he always is). So, the scene ends with Jacob saying that they are coming. The Man (Locke) watches on realizing that Jacob has taken the precautionary steps to out duel his nemesis.

The Phoenix theory is genius, really. I can't argue that at all. Jacob is someone of special importance, he's reading a book about rising from the ashes (I forget the exact wording) and he burns? Yea, definitely the Phoenix symbolism going on there.

I still don't think you can change the past. "What's done is done" was heard again in that episode and I think it really is. I don't know what's the deal with that explosion, but I don't think it's to get the Losties back to LAX.

Also, Illan's people are indeed the good guys. They are there to protect Jacob.

Poor Ben...I feel for the guy now. I really think he's a conflicted man and despite all of his wrongs, he is manipulated into doing something evil. Ah, there goes that religious symbolism again.

Juliet...wow, I cried. I don't care to admit that. That hit me hard when she fell down that hole. I just kept thinking: "Why didn't they just stay on the sub!"


edit: reading some of the above and there you go. More religious symbolism with light vs. dark and the game of backgammon. Good memories.

[~LiverpoolRed~]

Re: *** LOST: Season 5 Discussion***

Dissapointed that Desmond wasn't involved in the finale. What a waste of a season for his character. I was also hoping to see Sun and Jin reunite.

[fistofrage]

Re: *** LOST: Season 5 Discussion***

Loved the Opening Scene.

The Black Rock off in the distance. So Circa 1800 or whenever the Black Rock landed, the full statue was still there. Black Rock had Dynamite and probaly cannons on it so they took down the statue. There must have been a WAR on that island.

That statue and Ankh is clearly the symbol of eternal life. I am sure that Jacob cannot be killed. Too much religious symbolism to discuss, but clearly Titus(guy in black) is there to see if he can get the sheep to stray from the flock.

As far as the loophole, I wonder if Jacob actually resurrected Locke from the dead when he fell from that building. Didn't they say it was a miracle that he survived? Maybe at that point Titus was able to take over.

--------

I don't think they will be able to undo everything and land at LAX as if nothing ever happened. Too much other stuff going on and the Losties seem to be trying to unwind things for selfish reasons.

Remember when Jack( I believe) said to Eloise what happens if they don't go back and she responds "God save us all" or something to that effect?

And now the sole reason that Jack wants to detonate an Atomic bomb is so he can have Kate??????? Juliet so she never feels the pain of losing Sawyer????

In the midst of the struggle vs good and evil this is what drives Jack Shepherd? Not so he can land in LA successfully and go on to cure cancer. Not so he can reconcile with his ex-wife, not so he can repair failed family relationships, not so he can advance mankind? No, so he can have Kate. I think that has to be a setup or to show that Jack is really just an insignificant pawn in all of this.

Eloise Hawking makes it sound like the history of Mankind is in the balance, but is it?

Looking forward to seeing how this all plays out.

[Money99]

Re: *** LOST: Season 5 Discussion***

YankeePride, great roundup.

I also liked how they showed there is a difference between pre-determined and choice.
This is a theme that has been going on all season long. Are they destined to be on the island and make the choices that they have? So far, every time they try to change something, it stays the same. You get the sense that nobody has a choice and this is just the way it is.

But Jacob points out that this is inaccurate. Everything that has occurred was decided by people's own decisions. That's why he tells Ben that it's his choice to stay or go. It's up to him. But in the end he kills Jacob, which I'm sure he knew would happen. Even though Jacob knew how it would end up, it was still a free will decision by Ben that led to that path.

[soltrain]

Re: *** LOST: Season 5 Discussion***

Loved the Opening Scene.

The Black Rock off in the distance. So Circa 1800 or whenever the Black Rock landed, the full statue was still there. Black Rock had Dynamite and probaly cannons on it so they took down the statue. There must have been a WAR on that island.

That statue and Ankh is clearly the symbol of eternal life. I am sure that Jacob cannot be killed. Too much religious symbolism to discuss, but clearly Titus(guy in black) is there to see if he can get the sheep to stray from the flock.

As far as the loophole, I wonder if Jacob actually resurrected Locke from the dead when he fell from that building. Didn't they say it was a miracle that he survived? Maybe at that point Titus was able to take over.

--------

I don't think they will be able to undo everything and land at LAX as if nothing ever happened. Too much other stuff going on and the Losties seem to be trying to unwind things for selfish reasons.

Remember when Jack( I believe) said to Eloise what happens if they don't go back and she responds "God save us all" or something to that effect?

And now the sole reason that Jack wants to detonate an Atomic bomb is so he can have Kate??????? Juliet so she never feels the pain of losing Sawyer????

In the midst of the struggle vs good and evil this is what drives Jack Shepherd? Not so he can land in LA successfully and go on to cure cancer. Not so he can reconcile with his ex-wife, not so he can repair failed family relationships, not so he can advance mankind? No, so he can have Kate. I think that has to be a setup or to show that Jack is really just an insignificant pawn in all of this.

Eloise Hawking makes it sound like the history of Mankind is in the balance, but is it?

Looking forward to seeing how this all plays out.

I think he is trying to make everyone land so he can NEVER meet Kate. But I don't think that is going to matter, because LAX isn't landing - and I think when Jacob said "They're coming" he was talking about Sawyer, Jack, Kate, Sayid and Hurley - the people that will "redeem" the Island, which is something Jacob has been looking for for a while.

Rose and Bernard were pretty awesome. Everything Rose says is so true.

[Pared]

Re: *** LOST: Season 5 Discussion***

Anyway, this is what Rose is alluding to. She asks why do they keep trying when all they're gonna do is use their guns and keep beating up on each other. I'm not saying Rose is evil, but that was the symbolic connection with the theme of the episode.

FANTASTIC point. I was trying to pinpoint the reasoning for them being there and this sounds like it is right on the mark.