*** LOST: Season 5 Discussion***

[CMH]

Re: *** LOST: Season 5 Discussion***

Suprised No one has said that the "Guy in Black" was the one who told Richard that Locke had to die.

True, he is the one that basically gets Locke to try to kill himself.

Yea, I'm sure that the Man in Black (is that we we're calling him now? What does lostpedia say? Well, I just checked and the name is "Sirg" which jokingly means: Smokey In Random Guy. http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Jacob%27s_enemy) had a plan.

When he let Locke live in Season One, it was because he knew that Locke would be the key to him killing Jacob. There's been a lot of chess between Jacob and Sirg.

[WDOgF0reL1fe]

Re: *** LOST: Season 5 Discussion***

I just read through a bunch of posts. But has anyone mentioned that when Locke was resurrected on the island after the flight, he was wearing a BLACK TRENCHCOAT? So maybe this WAS Man in black resurrecting him and controlling him before Jacob could get to him

[CMH]

Re: *** LOST: Season 5 Discussion***

I just read through a bunch of posts. But has anyone mentioned that when Locke was resurrected on the island after the flight, he was wearing a BLACK TRENCHCOAT? So maybe this WAS Man in black resurrecting him and controlling him before Jacob could get to him

No one mentioned it, but yea, that's right. Sirg was always Locke when Flight 316 crashed. Locke is dead and will always be dead. Remember the episode named after Ben's comment: Dead Is Dead.

That's just how it works.

[JohnnytheSkin]

Re: *** LOST: Season 5 Discussion***

Didn't Locke WANT to be dragged down by Smokey in the Season One finale?

I've also been wondering what Locke saw when he looked up at the camera (into Smokey) also during Season One, where he came back and said that he saw the face of the island and it was beautiful...or something like that.

[CMH]

Re: *** LOST: Season 5 Discussion***

It was in "Walkabout" that Locke confronted the Smoke Monster.

I don't think he had much choice, really. Smoky was headed right at him, but yea, Locke didn't really struggle or fear it. He just accepted his fate.

Then Smoky seemingly just spit him right out.

As I was researching this answer, I remembered that in "White Rabbit" (the very next episode) there is a scene of Jack trying to climb rocks and out of nowhere Locke comes in and helps him.

It's insignificant, but Locke was definitely a weird character after his experience with Smoky. I'm definitely going to be rewatching all of Lost as I wait for the Season 6 premiere.

[CMH]

Re: *** LOST: Season 5 Discussion***

The name given to the Man in Black (Sirg) was pulled back by lostpedia. Guess they jumped the gun on that one.

[Pared]

Re: *** LOST: Season 5 Discussion***

B/c it was a stupid name! lol "Sirg"

Here's a thought... didn't Richard say that everyone died? So in the "present" the bomb went off, and everyone died.

The only way they would be able to explain it would be through divine intervention or some alternate, parallel universe... right?

[fistofrage]

Re: *** LOST: Season 5 Discussion***

What if we are being baited into thinking what is Good and What is EVil on the island?

Just to throw this out there....

Ben allegedly did everything on instruction from Jacob. Pretty Wicked Things.

When given an opportunity of his own free will to kill Penny, he didn't. Presumably because he saw her son and knew the trials of growing up without a mother. Ben does good when given his own choices?

Jacob had Syids grilfriend hit by a bus. (I thought someone murdered her and Sayid went after the killers on instruction by Ben) But I also thought she died when Jacob distracted them and she was hit by a bus. May have to watch that part again.

In the opening scene of the finale, Jacob is luring the Black Rock in. The man in Black doesn't seem real ken to the idea. If the man in black was evil, wouldn't he want more victims?

----------

The man in black is a prisoner of some sort. We think he is also smokey. If the smoke monster got off the island I imagine all bloody H would break loose. But yet Jacob tempts people tio the island which would appear the only way to create a "loophole" if indeed Jacob is the gatekeeper of the island.

Could there be something in Egyptian mythology that addresses this. The smoke monster and its keeper banished to the middle of a great ocean where noone could ever find them? Well at least until sailing and flight technology caught up which the Egyptians may not have foreseen.

Anyway, I don't think that Jacob is all good and smokey is all evil. I think its pretty blurred. I think they do what they do for a reason, but its not always clear cut good or evil.

[CMH]

Re: *** LOST: Season 5 Discussion***

Yea, the more I read the more I want to separate the idea of good vs. evil. It's more like it was described. Jacob and Jacob's nemesis. They are enemies because they disagree. It doesn't mean one is evil and the other is good. I think you're right with that.

It could be viewed this way as well. Jacob is about progress. He wants to run tests. He wants to see what people do on the Island. He wants to prove that people are capable of not fighting themselves. He basically says that out loud and the Man in Black confirms it.

Now, the Man in Black isn't actually supporting this. Like you said, he seems reluctant to have more people come to the Island. Perhaps, he is the protector of the Island. People have called the Smoke Monster the Island's Security. That's probably more in line with what he does. He wants to protect the Island and fears that people will only disrupt it by bringing war to the place.

Jacob, of course, is more powerful as he can will anyone to come and presumably go. The Man In Black is only able to do what he can to protect the Island. So, he wants to kill Jacob because that's his nature. He must protect the Island and killing Jacob will help him do such a thing.

I can only assume that he can not physically kill Jacob. But it does have something to do with either being John Locke or the Leader, because as soon as he steps into the Temple, Jacob recognizes him and states that he figured out the loophole.

[USF11]

Re: *** LOST: Season 5 Discussion***

How is Jacob getting off the island?

Who is helping him?

Is he human?

[fistofrage]

Re: *** LOST: Season 5 Discussion***

Yea, the more I read the more I want to separate the idea of good vs. evil. It's more like it was described. Jacob and Jacob's nemesis. They are enemies because they disagree. It doesn't mean one is evil and the other is good. I think you're right with that.

It could be viewed this way as well. Jacob is about progress. He wants to run tests. He wants to see what people do on the Island. He wants to prove that people are capable of not fighting themselves. He basically says that out loud and the Man in Black confirms it.

Now, the Man in Black isn't actually supporting this. Like you said, he seems reluctant to have more people come to the Island. Perhaps, he is the protector of the Island. People have called the Smoke Monster the Island's Security. That's probably more in line with what he does. He wants to protect the Island and fears that people will only disrupt it by bringing war to the place.

Jacob, of course, is more powerful as he can will anyone to come and presumably go. The Man In Black is only able to do what he can to protect the Island. So, he wants to kill Jacob because that's his nature. He must protect the Island and killing Jacob will help him do such a thing.

I can only assume that he can not physically kill Jacob. But it does have something to do with either being John Locke or the Leader, because as soon as he steps into the Temple, Jacob recognizes him and states that he figured out the loophole.

And I think for whatever reason that loophole was he resurrected John Locke when fell out of that building. It was a "miracle". He may have broken a rule.

It seems odd but its like he had to get Locke to the island and Locke died before he got there. The odd part is, Locke traveled back in time because he came to the island. I still don't understand why Widmore would guide him to the island and Jacob would make sure he lived. Logic says that it doesn't matter what they do, Locke made it to the island.

Maybe Jacob is trying to influence their behavior. Why would he tell Kate to never steal again, yet why wouldn't she, she didn't learn the consequence of her actions. Why would he give Sawyer the Pen so he would not let the death of his parents go. I am sure the list will go on.

It really creates a circular reference on all of this. Its mirky and the best way I can describe it is that we may have to let go of the the fact that flight 815 was beginning of the story and then things happened from there.

[poster]

Re: *** LOST: Season 5 Discussion***

It is really amazing the scope of this whole story. There are so many more things that I want to learn about. One more season does not seem like enough.

[fistofrage]

Re: *** LOST: Season 5 Discussion***

It is really amazing the scope of this whole story. There are so many more things that I want to learn about. One more season does not seem like enough.

I agree. They may have effed themselves(well not themselves, more like us) with all that filler in season 2. All those Anna Lucia flashbacks and the flashbacks of those 2 jokers that were buried alive. Basically, they need to turn the donkey wheel and get the time they wasted in season 2 back.

I don't think they'll delve into the whole creation of the island and such. I just don't see how there would be time. I'd pay for a Lost:Origins movie that went into detail how the island came about, the temple, the tunnels the smoke monster and how or why its in the Pacific ocean.

[Coug00]

Re: *** LOST: Season 5 Discussion***

No one mentioned it, but yea, that's right. Sirg was always Locke when Flight 316 crashed. Locke is dead and will always be dead. Remember the episode named after Ben's comment: Dead Is Dead.

That's just how it works.

Except we learned that's not true. Jacob brought Locke back to life after he was thrown out of the building, why couldn't he do it again?

He may certainly stay dead, obviously none of us know for sure, but I'm not sold on it yet. If he stays dead, Locke is the most disappointing character in the entire series, IMO.

I agree. They may have effed themselves(well not themselves, more like us) with all that filler in season 2. All those Anna Lucia flashbacks and the flashbacks of those 2 jokers that were buried alive. Basically, they need to turn the donkey wheel and get the time they wasted in season 2 back.

Its splitting hairs, but those two were killed off in season 3 (after they set an end date).

[poster]

Re: *** LOST: Season 5 Discussion***

I agree. They may have effed themselves(well not themselves, more like us) with all that filler in season 2. All those Anna Lucia flashbacks and the flashbacks of those 2 jokers that were buried alive. Basically, they need to turn the donkey wheel and get the time they wasted in season 2 back.

I don't think they'll delve into the whole creation of the island and such. I just don't see how there would be time. I'd pay for a Lost:Origins movie that went into detail how the island came about, the temple, the tunnels the smoke monster and how or why its in the Pacific ocean.

Ha, we need Locke to turn the wheel for us!

You mentioned this now and previously, I too would love to see something along the lines of Lost:Origins. Maybe one day after the shows ends, that would be awesome. I guess we'll see how much we learn next season.