*** LOST: Season 5 Discussion***

[Brandon13]

Re: *** LOST: Season 5 Discussion***

As others have already mentioned....

Season 1 Pilot, Part 2. Locke, playing backgammon on the beach, talking to Walt:

"Two players. Two sides. One is light, one is dark."

Awesome.

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I'd definitely say they had a plan from the beginning now.

[Leon]

Re: *** LOST: Season 5 Discussion***

I love this show. I hate we have to wait so long for it to come back.

I'm going to go against the grain here. I'm going to call it now, Jacob, in some way, lives on through Jack. Ben kills Jacob, Locke kicks him into the fire and suddenly, we see everything through Jacob's perspective and as his/our view turns, we're back in 1977, through Jack's eyes, just as Jack comes into consciousness after being knocked out. Could it just be a stylistic way of presenting the show during that scene? Perhaps. Could it mean something more? Probably. Just as Man in Black seems to be living through Locke now, I say Jacob is living through Jack (someone mentioned the Phoenix theory - rise from the ashes/resurrection - well, there goes your symbolism), and they're coming. The last scene was definitely a flash. (Juliet, I hope you're alive!)

Think about it. Those two have always disagreed. Man of Science vs Man of Faith. Jacob vs Man in Black. Light vs Dark. Jack vs Locke.

WHAT A FINALE. And if I'm wrong with my theory, I don't really care. 2010 can't come soon enough.

Edit: I just realized how ridiculous it is to hope that Juliet's alive since, well, that was a damn nuke she was bashing a rock with. That scene was so damn sad though, I can't help but feel for her.

[fistofrage]

Re: *** LOST: Season 5 Discussion***

I love this show. I hate we have to wait so long for it to come back.

I'm going to go against the grain here. I'm going to call it now, Jacob, in some way, lives on through Jack. Ben kills Jacob, Locke kicks him into the fire and suddenly, we see everything through Jacob's perspective and as his/our view turns, we're back in 1977, through Jack's eyes, just as Jack comes into consciousness after being knocked out. Could it just be a stylistic way of presenting the show during that scene? Perhaps. Could it mean something more? Probably. Just as Man in Black seems to be living through Locke now, I say Jacob is living through Jack (someone mentioned the Phoenix theory - rise from the ashes/resurrection - well, there goes your symbolism), and they're coming. The last scene was definitely a flash. (Juliet, I hope you're alive!)

Think about it. Those two have always disagreed. Man of Science vs Man of Faith. Jacob vs Man in Black. Light vs Dark. Jack vs Locke.

WHAT A FINALE. And if I'm wrong with my theory, I don't really care. 2010 can't come soon enough.

Good thoughts and the irony is that Locke was the man of faith and now has succombed to the dark side.

I think the "loophole" is that Locke died twice. Once in the fall, then when Ben killed him. Jacob resurrected Locke. But once Ben Killed him, he was up for grabs and the man in black got to him first. Whatever the loophole truly is, it was stroner with Locke as he was able to take on full physical qualities.

Just like Locke is a manifestation of the smoke monster taking on real physical qualities. I think Jacob is also a manifestation. All the Egyptian symbolism would leave me to believe that a blonde haired fair skinned man is just a manifestation of someone who was previously on the island. So even if you kill "Jacob" in a physical sense, I have no reason to believe that he couldn't return even in the form of Jack.

I would love to see a "Lost:Origins" and get the full skinny on the island.

[~LiverpoolRed~]

Re: *** LOST: Season 5 Discussion***

Edit: I just realized how ridiculous it is to hope that Juliet's alive since, well, that was a damn nuke she was bashing a rock with. That scene was so damn sad though, I can't help but feel for her.

But did the nuke even go off? The flashing light at the end could be just to throw us off.

[Leon]

Re: *** LOST: Season 5 Discussion***

Just to add to the Jack/Jacob thing...

In Jacob's flashback with Jack, Jack was getting a candy bar which Jacob promptly helped him get. What was it? An Apollo bar. What's Apollo got to do with it?

Per Wikipedia:

In Greek and Roman mythology, Apollo (in Greek, Ἀπόλλων—Apóllōn or Ἀπέλλων—Apellōn), is one of the most important and many-sided of the Olympian deities. The ideal of the kouros (a beardless youth), Apollo has been variously recognized as a god of light and the sun; truth and prophecy; archery; medicine and healing; music, poetry, and the arts; and more.

Apollo was also seen as a god who could bring ill-health and deadly plague as well as one who had the ability to cure. Amongst the god's custodial charges, Apollo became associated with dominion over colonists, and as the patron defender of herds and flocks.

Jacob "healed/cured" (though we're not really sure yet) Locke the first time & brought death when he got Sayid's attention and killed Nadia, and he's in charge of a group of people on the Island. Jack heals people, has brought death to people, and was in charge of a group of people on the Island.

Nice touch, no?

Great points fistofrage. I've come to accept LOST as Sci-with a little more Fi now, and I'm fine with it. They tell a great story, and I think that's why we're all hooked.

[Leon]

Re: *** LOST: Season 5 Discussion***

But did the nuke even go off? The flashing light at the end could be just to throw us off.

True. I thought about that too. Still, I've been reading up that there would be a major-ish death (other than Faraday). Sayid, for all we know, is still safe albeit dying. No other major is in immediate trouble other than Juliet. If she even shows up at all in season 6 though, I'll be happy.

[~LiverpoolRed~]

Re: *** LOST: Season 5 Discussion***

True. I thought about that too. Still, I've been reading up that there would be a major-ish death (other than Faraday). Sayid, for all we know, is still safe albeit dying. No other major is in immediate trouble other than Juliet. If she even shows up at all in season 6 though, I'll be happy.

Phil's death was huge!

EDIT: And was anyone else waiting for Sawyer to beat the living piss out of Radzinski?

[fistofrage]

Re: *** LOST: Season 5 Discussion***

But did the nuke even go off? The flashing light at the end could be just to throw us off.

I think it did.

The reason was they way the writers were talking during the recap show. Definitely made it sound leading up to the finale that the Losties had free will back in time which would mean they could change something.

Was the Purge of Dharmaville a Purge of a wide variety of people? Because at the time they dropped the bomb into the Swan hole, the island had been evactuated of all non-essential personnel including women and children.

If the Purge that we know of killed off the whole village including Women and Children, then we know that the Losties were already able to change some things. IE force an evacuation. So that could be 1 clue for us to look at.

[CMH]

Re: *** LOST: Season 5 Discussion***

Ok, here's where things get conflicted for me.

When Desmond moves to use the fail safe key, he finds a skeleton in DHARMA clothes. That skeleton is Juliet, right? It would only make sense.

However, if she does get the nuke to detonate, there's no way her skeleton could still be under there.

[CMH]

Re: *** LOST: Season 5 Discussion***

I think it did.

The reason was they way the writers were talking during the recap show. Definitely made it sound leading up to the finale that the Losties had free will back in time which would mean they could change something.

Was the Purge of Dharmaville a Purge of a wide variety of people? Because at the time they dropped the bomb into the Swan hole, the island had been evactuated of all non-essential personnel including women and children.

If the Purge that we know of killed off the whole village including Women and Children, then we know that the Losties were already able to change some things. IE force an evacuation. So that could be 1 clue for us to look at.

I think the evacuation always happened because that's when Miles sees why Chang left his mother and him behind. His mother didn't understand at the time, so she put his father down, but Miles sees that Chang was just trying to save his life.

[Leon]

Re: *** LOST: Season 5 Discussion***

Ok, here's where things get conflicted for me.

When Desmond moves to use the fail safe key, he finds a skeleton in DHARMA clothes. That skeleton is Juliet, right? It would only make sense.

However, if she does get the nuke to detonate, there's no way her skeleton could still be under there.

She wasn't wearing Dharma clothes though. I'm surprised no one has mentioned the possibility of Rose and Bernard being the skeletons in the cave. Of course, the flash (if it was a flash), would negate that possibility. Assuming they were transported of course.

[fistofrage]

Re: *** LOST: Season 5 Discussion***

I think the evacuation always happened because that's when Miles sees why Chang left his mother and him behind. His mother didn't understand at the time, so she put his father down, but Miles sees that Chang was just trying to save his life.

You are probably right. I only saw the "Purge" episode once and it was a long time ago now, but I swear the Dharma Village was packed when he did it with women running all over the place gasping for air.

But I guess that would have been 10 years later anyway, so nevermind. They could have thought they contained the mess by then and started back up their program.

Juliet was wearing Civilian clothes wasn't she....Red Shirt. So I don't think that was Juliet's skeleton. If that is her skeleton though, you are right, bomb didn't go off.

But if they changed the future, the whole scene with Desmond and the key never happened right?

[ehh]

Re: *** LOST: Season 5 Discussion***

There is no way that the nuke successfully did it's job and "hit the reset button", not a chance. It would basically make the first five seasons of the show meaningless.

[fistofrage]

Re: *** LOST: Season 5 Discussion***

There is no way that the nuke successfully did it's job and "hit the reset button", not a chance. It would basically make the first five seasons of the show meaningless.

I agree but the "Reset" button may not just make it so the ONLY thing that changes is that the flight 815 lands in Los Angeles. There has to be a wide reaching Butterfly effect. There would be 30 years of things that did or did not happen.

What if the Bomb goes off and when Jacob visits Kate thats a flash forward of what happened when the bomb went off. Jacob sets young Kate on a path of not stealing, etc......

I look back at my Dad taking a job he did when I was a baby. That decision alone has impacted my entire life. It was just a choice between similar job A and Job B. But if he had taken Job B, I wouldn't have the same friends, busted up my leg, gone to the college I went to, met my wife, had my daughter, etc.

In turn my friends and wife wouldn't have known me, etc. Its hard to say what the far reaching effects of that 1 decision was. A choice between similar job A & B in different cities. Now think of a Bomb going off or not going off.

[CMH]

Re: *** LOST: Season 5 Discussion***

Ah, I forgot she was wearing civilian clothes. Forget it. It's someone else, probably from after the Swan was built and the fail safe lock and key were designed.