*** LOST: Season 5 Discussion***

[peteykirch]

Re: *** LOST: Season 5 Discussion***

But Hurley did say, "what if they ask us who the president is?" when they first arrived back on the island.

Well, yeah that did happen, but the BTTF thing was the first thing that came to my mind, and all they needed was a joke about plutonium and it's availability.

I'm sure in 1985 you can find plutonium at any corner drug store, but in 1955 it's a bit harder to come by.

[CMH]

Re: *** LOST: Season 5 Discussion***

One theory is that the "elders" in the Temple are really the 815s from 1977...

Did you read the above comments.

[Unoriginal Name]

Re: *** LOST: Season 5 Discussion***

I have been thinking for awhile that Jacob is Jack. For some reason that was the first thing that popped in to my head when we first saw Jacob.

I never thought that the temple people could be the Losties but it would make sense because of all the mentioning of these people.

One thing my wife brought up last night after Alpert said he watched them all die is that in season 1 wasn't there a cave or something that had skeletons in it? If the Losties don't turn out to be the ones in the temple could the skeletons be the skeletons of the ones who flashed back to 1977?

One thought popped in my head when Alpert said he watched them die is that whatever they did in 1977 changed things that 815 doesn't crash and they cease to exist, "die", sort of like "Erased from existence" in Back to the Future. However, John and Sun being around in 2007 with Alpert kind of blows a hole in to this theory. Those two would also have to cease to exist if the flight made it all the way to LA, so I don't think I can really make this theory work...just thinking aloud.

[moose1619]

Re: *** LOST: Season 5 Discussion***

If the 815s are the elders in the temple then wouldn't Ben recognize and know this. If Ben knows this do you think he has tried to alter history by trying to kill Lock all those times and do other stuff to people. One question I still don't understand and maybe I just missed it is why the Others took the children?

[fistofrage]

Re: *** LOST: Season 5 Discussion***

If the 815s are the elders in the temple then wouldn't Ben recognize and know this. If Ben knows this do you think he has tried to alter history by trying to kill Lock all those times and do other stuff to people. One question I still don't understand and maybe I just missed it is why the Others took the children?

Probably because they can't reproduce on the island. But even then, they had a sub, they could kidnap or recruit kids from the mainland if they wanted kids.

I think that kid thing may have just been an "Uh OH, we can't have kids on this island, they'll grow 2 feet like Walt did and the first 3 seasons only covers 90 days of show time."

If the elders in the temple are the Losties we may have some issues. It would mean that between 2004 and 2007 Jack, Kate, Hurley, Sayid were living in essentially 2 different timelines. Because when Sawyer and Smirk were in Dharma from 1974 to 1977, they aged 3 years, the same amount of time that the Oceanic 6 were out in the real world from 2004 to 2007. Time should still be moving as far as I can tell. So if the Losties are the Elders in the Temple in 2007 and they are in their 60's, 30 years would still have to pass for Sun to catch up to them in the present time. Meaning Sun shouldn't be able to see the old Losties unti she is that old as well. It would be different if Sun had "flashed" around and gotten to 2007, but she was always living in the present.

[HealyMonster]

Re: *** LOST: Season 5 Discussion***

Probably because they can't reproduce on the island. But even then, they had a sub, they could kidnap or recruit kids from the mainland if they wanted kids.

I think that kid thing may have just been an "Uh OH, we can't have kids on this island, they'll grow 2 feet like Walt did and the first 3 seasons only covers 90 days of show time."

If the elders in the temple are the Losties we may have some issues. It would mean that between 2004 and 2007 Jack, Kate, Hurley, Sayid were living in essentially 2 different timelines. Because when Sawyer and Smirk were in Dharma from 1974 to 1977, they aged 3 years, the same amount of time that the Oceanic 6 were out in the real world from 2004 to 2007. Time should still be moving as far as I can tell. So if the Losties are the Elders in the Temple in 2007 and they are in their 60's, 30 years would still have to pass for Sun to catch up to them in the present time. Meaning Sun shouldn't be able to see the old Losties unti she is that old as well. It would be different if Sun had "flashed" around and gotten to 2007, but she was always living in the present.

ßerious spoiler do not read, I got this from another site about the losties and the people in the temple:

Spoiler

I read that they do have "old" versions of the losties and that they are "others" at some point in 2007 or beyond where everone ends up in the finale. supposedly when they brought in the "older versions" of people they evacuated the set from non essentials but the make up people worked overtime and spilled the beans.

Its not 100% as nothing is, but this has become a real theory at least until the finale proves it wrong.

I also read another spoiler that has everyone, locke, jack, etc all together and into the future and an old man Walt picks them up in a vw van.

who knows?

[CMH]

Re: *** LOST: Season 5 Discussion***

If the elders in the temple are the Losties we may have some issues. It would mean that between 2004 and 2007 Jack, Kate, Hurley, Sayid were living in essentially 2 different timelines. Because when Sawyer and Smirk were in Dharma from 1974 to 1977, they aged 3 years, the same amount of time that the Oceanic 6 were out in the real world from 2004 to 2007. Time should still be moving as far as I can tell. So if the Losties are the Elders in the Temple in 2007 and they are in their 60's, 30 years would still have to pass for Sun to catch up to them in the present time. Meaning Sun shouldn't be able to see the old Losties unti she is that old as well. It would be different if Sun had "flashed" around and gotten to 2007, but she was always living in the present.

Why do you say that? Sun is in 2007/2008 right now. If the Losties are the elders then they are old from 1977. Sun doesn't have to age with them. She never went back to 1977 to age with them.

Locke ran into Locke. He didn't speak to him but he could see him. If he wanted to talk to himself, he could. In the world of Lost, a person can exist twice in the same time period. That same person isn't exactly the same person anyway. One is the present and the other will be either the future or past depending on which perspective you take it.

[Coug00]

Re: *** LOST: Season 5 Discussion***

If the 815s are the elders in the temple then wouldn't Ben recognize and know this. If Ben knows this do you think he has tried to alter history by trying to kill Lock all those times and do other stuff to people. One question I still don't understand and maybe I just missed it is why the Others took the children?

Ben admitted to Locke he'd never seen Jacob. So maybe he has never seen the elders as well.

[CMH]

Re: *** LOST: Season 5 Discussion***

Yea, that's my assumption too. I think there's a lot that Ben doesn't know. If it's the Losties as elders, I would think they would tell Alpert that Ben must never see them.

[CMH]

Re: *** LOST: Season 5 Discussion***

Anyone remember what episode it was mentioned that there were elders in the Temple? I recall hearing it but I can't recall the context.

[fistofrage]

Re: *** LOST: Season 5 Discussion***

Why do you say that? Sun is in 2007/2008 right now. If the Losties are the elders then they are old from 1977. Sun doesn't have to age with them. She never went back to 1977 to age with them.

Locke ran into Locke. He didn't speak to him but he could see him. If he wanted to talk to himself, he could. In the world of Lost, a person can exist twice in the same time period. That same person isn't exactly the same person anyway. One is the present and the other will be either the future or past depending on which perspective you take it.

Because even when you are back in time, 1 day equals 1 day. So the Losties are in 1977, its still going to take them 30 years to get to 2007. That same 30 years will be passing to Sun as it would to the Losties.

Here is why. On August 1, 2007(approximate) flight 316 took off with Sun, Jack, Hurley, Kate, Sayid, and the allegedly deceased Locke. On that day, the plane crashed with Sun & Locke, but Jack and the others flashed back to 1977. Every day that goes by in 1977 the Lostie time jumpers are aging. At the same time present time is moving forward. That is how it worked in the time period from 1974 to 1977 concurrent to 2004 to 2007. It gets tricky though because the Island is now in 2007 where the Losties(if they are the elders) are now in their 60's. That makes sense. The inconsistancy comes in where the Losties need time to age. And because the Losties flashed back to 1977 in 2007, there needs to be 30 years of time elapsing.

Take Sawyer and Juliet. Lets say they were the Elders. They needed 30 years of real time aging to get there. Just like 3 years on the island 1974 to 1977 equated to 3 years off the island to Kate and Jack from 2004 to 2007.

Haerd to explain, but its all because the writers drew the parallel between 1974 and 2004 and had them both aging real time.

[HealyMonster]

Re: *** LOST: Season 5 Discussion***

Because even when you are back in time, 1 day equals 1 day. So the Losties are in 1977, its still going to take them 30 years to get to 2007. That same 30 years will be passing to Sun as it would to the Losties.

Here is why. On August 1, 2007(approximate) flight 316 took off with Sun, Jack, Hurley, Kate, Sayid, and the allegedly deceased Locke. On that day, the plane crashed with Sun & Locke, but Jack and the others flashed back to 1977. Every day that goes by in 1977 the Lostie time jumpers are aging. At the same time present time is moving forward. That is how it worked in the time period from 1974 to 1977 concurrent to 2004 to 2007. It gets tricky though because the Island is now in 2007 where the Losties(if they are the elders) are now in their 60's. That makes sense. The inconsistancy comes in where the Losties need time to age. And because the Losties flashed back to 1977 in 2007, there needs to be 30 years of time elapsing.

Take Sawyer and Juliet. Lets say they were the Elders. They needed 30 years of real time aging to get there. Just like 3 years on the island 1974 to 1977 equated to 3 years off the island to Kate and Jack from 2004 to 2007.

Haerd to explain, but its all because the writers drew the parallel between 1974 and 2004 and had them both aging real time.

I think you got it wrong. You are thinking of things as they are showing it as if its going on concurrently.

You need to think of what is happening in 1977 as the past, and when they show locke, sun,etc you need to think of that as the present. When they show sun and locke, whatever happened to the 815ers from 1977, happened. they are either in a temple, dead, back on the mainland. whatever happened to them already happened. this is why when they change scenes it says 30 years ago or present day.

witht hat being said, if the 1977 losties time jump again to present day from 1977, they will be with sun and everyone will be on the same playing field.

[CMH]

Re: *** LOST: Season 5 Discussion***

Yea, Renegade is right.

Sun is already 30 years later by being in 2007.

The Losties in 1977 are living in the past. When they reach 2007, they will be reaching the 2007 that Sun is living.

So, when Flight 815 crashed, they knew it would happen. They were there. 60 years of age, old, remembering that day, and watching from the Temple.

Assuming they are those elders.

[fistofrage]

Re: *** LOST: Season 5 Discussion***

I think you got it wrong. You are thinking of things as they are showing it as if its going on concurrently.

You need to think of what is happening in 1977 as the past, and when they show locke, sun,etc you need to think of that as the present. When they show sun and locke, whatever happened to the 815ers from 1977, happened. they are either in a temple, dead, back on the mainland. whatever happened to them already happened. this is why when they change scenes it says 30 years ago or present day.

witht hat being said, if the 1977 losties time jump again to present day from 1977, they will be with sun and everyone will be on the same playing field.

I understand what you are saying, and that is the way to look at it. You are correct.

I get that, when they show the 1977, you are just reading a history book.

But the writers have contradicted themselves possibly is what I'm trying to point out. But when the writers were showing Sawyer and Juliet in 1974 to 1977 and Jack and Kate in 2004 to 2007 those time operiods were going on Concurrently. They both knew that it had been 3 years since they had seen eachother. 1 day off the island equated to 1 day on the island.

And if Jack does use Faraday's book to change history then you are no longer reading a history book, it goes from being history to being real time. But I don't think he does. I think thats why Jacob(If Jacob is Jack) freaks out when he sees anything to do with technology. Because technology can't be used against destiny or something cheesy like that.

Anyway, yes you are correct. I was just trying to point out that the Writers used the same parralel of exactly 3 years - 1974 to 1977 2004 - 2007. It implies 1 day is 1 day regardless of where you are at. They could have chosen any time for the Losties to pop back, say 1984. 3 years would have passed for the Losties 2004 to 2007 and 10 years passed for Sawyer. See what I'm saying.

[CMH]

Re: *** LOST: Season 5 Discussion***

Yea, I get what you're saying here.

It's not a contradiction, it's just a tool to make it easier to understand. They use three years for everyone because it's just easier to follow that way. Let's have Sawyer spend three years in DHARMA land and Jack three years in LA.

But, they aren't actually spending those days the same. The same amount of time is passing for each in their present lives, but they are still powerless to time. So Sun doesn't have to wait 30 years along with them. I get it, though. I see what's running through your mind and trying to explain how it's not like that is even difficult for me to accept.


edit: Man, you are giving me a headache thinking of it too. I know exactly what you're getting at here and it's numbing my brain. But, I know that's not how it works. It's just extremely difficult to separate that. Wow, thanks for that.