*** Lost: Season 6 (Final Season) ***

[Money99]

Re: *** Lost: Season 6 (Final Season) ***

Excellent post YankeePride. It's a theory I've been kicking around for a while as well.

It makes me wonder which reality will win over? Will the never-happened universe prevail?
Will the islanders disappear depending on the decision of the other world? Or will the opposite happen?

What happens if Jacob wins? Does this all never happen? And what's going to happen to the MIB?

[Pared]

Re: *** Lost: Season 6 (Final Season) ***

Also does Jacob's adversary know that Jacob leaves the island?

[CMH]

Re: *** Lost: Season 6 (Final Season) ***

Also does Jacob's adversary know that Jacob leaves the island?

I've wondered the same. My thinking (and it's only my thinking so I'm probably wrong) is that he knows.

I only believe this because he tells Jacob that he brought the ship here.

You know me and what I want to do for a living, so, subtext is a big part of writing to me. Characters that don't say what they really want to say is how people are in real life. You don't want a character blurting out: "I know you went to them and touched them so they could come here. I hate you. I wish we didn't have these rules so I could just kill you right now." That's boring. Instead, he says: "You brought them here. Do you know how much I want to kill you?"

There's so much in those words. That's how I hear: "You brought them here." There's deeper meaning. He knows that Jacob has the power to visit these people and orchestrate their arrival. So, asking them doesn't matter much to him. He could ask and find out how they did it this time, but what's the point? In the end, it was Jacob's doing.

I think both can travel on and off the Island. And I think both do it to try to do what they can to prove their point.

But, that's just my thinking.

[Skerik]

Re: *** Lost: Season 6 (Final Season) ***

Excellent post YankeePride. It's a theory I've been kicking around for a while as well.

It makes me wonder which reality will win over? Will the never-happened universe prevail?
Will the islanders disappear depending on the decision of the other world? Or will the opposite happen?

What happens if Jacob wins? Does this all never happen? And what's going to happen to the MIB?

This is the direction my questions are moving right now. What are the ultimate stakes of everything happening on the show right now? We now have two timelines, one of which fulfills the hopes of the Losties all along - they never crash on the island and land safely in Los Angeles. But now we're all noticing that most of the Losties lives were better on the island. Will they eventually come to this realization as well, and then try to un-do that which they've tried so hard to do, by going back yet again and not detonating the bomb?

Or say the MiB heads to the temple now, before they've fortified their defenses, and he completely tears everything up. Does he "win" by doing that? And if so, what happens? What happens if Jacob wins? It's like the Losties are being pushed onto the back burner as pawns in this grand chess match between Jacob and MiB. But so what? What happens if Jacob finally proves him wrong? What happens if he never does?

I guess I'm just starting to question the ultimate point of everything. The Losties have achieved what they wanted - they now get to LAX safely having never crashed on the island, which is now at the bottom of the ocean. Is any of that a bad thing? Do they need to be there? Does that island need to exist? Does Jacob need to win?

Argh. I love the show, I'm just questioning what it all means at this point.

[CMH]

Re: *** Lost: Season 6 (Final Season) ***

Excellent post YankeePride. It's a theory I've been kicking around for a while as well.

It makes me wonder which reality will win over? Will the never-happened universe prevail?
Will the islanders disappear depending on the decision of the other world? Or will the opposite happen?

What happens if Jacob wins? Does this all never happen? And what's going to happen to the MIB?

Now you're asking everyone's questions. Haha.

I like your question about Jacob winning. I wonder if he gets it right, does his nemesis try to prove him wrong again? Not sure how that works because once a fact is unproven, it's no longer a fact you can stand by.

But what happens at that point? Does Jacob become god of the entire universe because he finally succeeded in proving his point? What's at stake here, really? Why does Jacob have to prove his Nemesis wrong? Is this all just for pride? Is this one game of many others they play?

And what does this all have to do with the 48 survivors of Oceanic Flight 815?

edit: Ha, Skerik beat me to it. The big questions, man.

[Pared]

Re: *** Lost: Season 6 (Final Season) ***

I've wondered the same. My thinking (and it's only my thinking so I'm probably wrong) is that he knows.

I only believe this because he tells Jacob that he brought the ship here.

You know me and what I want to do for a living, so, subtext is a big part of writing to me. Characters that don't say what they really want to say is how people are in real life. You don't want a character blurting out: "I know you went to them and touched them so they could come here. I hate you. I wish we didn't have these rules so I could just kill you right now." That's boring. Instead, he says: "You brought them here. Do you know how much I want to kill you?"

There's so much in those words. That's how I hear: "You brought them here." There's deeper meaning. He knows that Jacob has the power to visit these people and orchestrate their arrival. So, asking them doesn't matter much to him. He could ask and find out how they did it this time, but what's the point? In the end, it was Jacob's doing.

I think both can travel on and off the Island. And I think both do it to try to do what they can to prove their point.

But, that's just my thinking.

I don't think his adversary can travel off the island. Didn't he say, "I want to go home" to Ben?

Good points. I've been thinking something similar. The writers have proven they like to use sub-text to get their point across.

Skerik - your questions are probably ones that we'll all asking at this point. But knowing the writers they are all going to ty it in somehow.

Side question - wasn't that kid's sister supposed to be on the plane? The one talking to Locke?

Another side point - let's not forget Jacob is still alive in the alternate reality.... right?

[USF11]

Re: *** Lost: Season 6 (Final Season) ***

I don't think his adversary can travel off the island. Didn't he say, "I want to go home" to Ben?

I was just thinking....The circles prevent the smoke monster from entering certain spaces, The Island is a circle? trapping the monster.....also I dont believe the smoke monster ever appeared on the dharma/others "smaller" island at any point in time. Meaning its trapped to the main island.

Is there any mythology regarding a mythical being trapped on an island.

[ehh]

Re: *** Lost: Season 6 (Final Season) ***

So, why are you not happy with the direction of Season 6?

Because I think the parallel universe stuff (if that's indeed what it is) is ultimately going to be irrelevant and a waste of time, like time travel and "the record skipping" all through S5. We all knew they'd eventually get back to where they needed to be (in the present) yet a good chunk of S5 was dedicated to them hoping through time. For what? To kill off a few characters? To give us a better look into the Dharma Initiative? To me it was not important enough to the plot to spend as much time as they did on it in S5.

With only one season left (14-15 episodes) I don't want a good portion of the final season to be wasted on something that won't matter when it's all said and done. I have no problem with the insane samurai/temple/body snatchers/zombie thing going on, it's the off-Island stuff that I'm concerned with.

Unless the parallel universes meet/merge at some point (which is possible with Desmond disappearing from the flight and Shannon not being on it) I'm probably going to be disappointed with all the time they're going to dedicate to it. But I guess I have to put my faith in the writers, I'm skeptical at this point though.

I'm intrigued by the fact that MIB is not Locke though as the producers said on Kimmel last night. Very interesting.

[CMH]

Re: *** Lost: Season 6 (Final Season) ***

I don't think his adversary can travel off the island. Didn't he say, "I want to go home" to Ben?

Good points. I've been thinking something similar. The writers have proven they like to use sub-text to get their point across.

Skerik - your questions are probably ones that we'll all asking at this point. But knowing the writers they are all going to ty it in somehow.

Side question - wasn't that kid's sister supposed to be on the plane? The one talking to Locke?

Another side point - let's not forget Jacob is still alive in the alternate reality.... right?

Yea, I was going to say he appeared as Christian to Jack in a Flash Forward, but I'm also remembering that Christian appeared to Sun and had her turn around to see Locke (who at this point is the Smoke Monster). So, not sure how to interpret that.

Shannon was supposed to be there but Boone explains that she didn't want to leave Australia and her relationship. In the original timeline, Boone saves her from an abusive(?) boyfriend.

Didn't even think about that. Jacob could be alive in the alternate timeline. Interesting.

[Pared]

Re: *** Lost: Season 6 (Final Season) ***

There were TWO islands at one point? Or was it just the other side of the island?

I don't think the dust has anything to do with confining him to the island. It just will not allow him to enter a sizable area for whatever reason.

Knowing he is the smoke monster now, I'd be curious to go back and see everyone's encounter with him... wasn't Ecko spared by the monster once?

[ODogg]

Re: *** Lost: Season 6 (Final Season) ***

Eko was spared once, yes...and if you recall there were elements of the cross and religion in the smoke when the smoke monster picked him up, insinuating that for whatever reason his faith kept him from being killed.

And yes there were two islands as I understood it, one across from the other.

Also, as I stated earlier, there is a mythical being confined to an island, Lucifer. He, while extremely powerful, is confined in his prison just like the Smoke Monster on the show. Isn't that obvious?

[CMH]

Re: *** Lost: Season 6 (Final Season) ***

I was just thinking....The circles prevent the smoke monster from entering certain spaces, The Island is a circle? trapping the monster.....also I dont believe the smoke monster ever appeared on the dharma/others "smaller" island at any point in time. Meaning its trapped to the main island.

Is there any mythology regarding a mythical being trapped on an island.

I spent a few minutes using google, wiki, other sources and I have no idea how to pinpoint if such a story exists.

The keywords all point to other stories. Probably need someone that knows a lot about mythological beasts.

edit: Or you have ODogg's explanation. He did say that previously in this thread. I hope he isn't Lucifer, but you never know.

[Money99]

Re: *** Lost: Season 6 (Final Season) ***

Now you're asking everyone's questions. Haha.

I like your question about Jacob winning. I wonder if he gets it right, does his nemesis try to prove him wrong again? Not sure how that works because once a fact is unproven, it's no longer a fact you can stand by.

But what happens at that point? Does Jacob become god of the entire universe because he finally succeeded in proving his point? What's at stake here, really? Why does Jacob have to prove his Nemesis wrong? Is this all just for pride? Is this one game of many others they play?

And what does this all have to do with the 48 survivors of Oceanic Flight 815?

edit: Ha, Skerik beat me to it. The big questions, man.

I think I know how this show is going to end, or at least the last scene of the show.

Jacob eventually wins and everyone's lives are better off for it.
However, in the last scene, we see Jacob and the MIB sitting on another island watching a different ship, or plane, land on the island with the MIB saying 'And so it begins again'.

Skerik, with all the obvious religious undertones to the Jacob-MIB dynamic I think you've asked the question that the producers wanted all of us to raise?
What's the meaning of life? What's the point.

If we go with the parallel of Jacob is God and the MIB is Satan, Satan wonders why God bothered to create man knowing that we'll fight, wage wars, indulge in sin, etc.
God always believes in the betterment of mankind and knows in the end we'll make the right choices. Satan tries to destroy this line of thinking by tempting man or causing disruption.

That's why I don't think we'll get a definitive answer by the last episode. Maybe we'll see an end result for Jack, Hurley, and the rest of the survivors. But the larger picture is primarily Jacob and MIB with the Others, Dharma and the Oceanic survivors merely being pawns in their never-ending game.

[CMH]

Re: *** Lost: Season 6 (Final Season) ***

Because I think the parallel universe stuff (if that's indeed what it is) is ultimately going to be irrelevant and a waste of time, like time travel and "the record skipping" all through S5. We all knew they'd eventually get back to where they needed to be (in the present) yet a good chunk of S5 was dedicated to them hoping through time. For what? To kill off a few characters? To give us a better look into the Dharma Initiative? To me it was not important enough to the plot to spend as much time as they did on it in S5.

With only one season left (14-15 episodes) I don't want a good portion of the final season to be wasted on something that won't matter when it's all said and done. I have no problem with the insane samurai/temple/body snatchers/zombie thing going on, it's the off-Island stuff that I'm concerned with.

Unless the parallel universes meet/merge at some point (which is possible with Desmond disappearing from the flight and Shannon not being on it) I'm probably going to be disappointed with all the time they're going to dedicate to it. But I guess I have to put my faith in the writers, I'm skeptical at this point though.

I'm intrigued by the fact that MIB is not Locke though as the producers said on Kimmel last night. Very interesting.

I think the time skipping was relevant as it told us why everything was happening. It's where you learned what actions had been taken to create the present.

I'm still skeptical of alternate time lines. I said it before that I didn't like the idea when the bomb exploded. But, I have faith in the writers and I'm sure it'll end up making sense.

As for the Kimmel comment...I really don't think that's what they meant. They said MiB isn't possessing Locke's body, which is true because Locke is dead on the beach.

[Money99]

Re: *** Lost: Season 6 (Final Season) ***

Because I think the parallel universe stuff (if that's indeed what it is) is ultimately going to be irrelevant and a waste of time, like time travel and "the record skipping" all through S5. We all knew they'd eventually get back to where they needed to be (in the present) yet a good chunk of S5 was dedicated to them hoping through time. For what? To kill off a few characters? To give us a better look into the Dharma Initiative? To me it was not important enough to the plot to spend as much time as they did on it in S5.

I don't think it's going to play out as insignificant. How many times has the reference to a record been brought up throughout this show? Numerous times.

I think it's very symbolic of what's taking place. The same story goes round and round. Sure, you might hit a different track here or there, but eventually it all wind's down to the same point no matter the path you take.

Like Jacob stated, the end is the same, but the lead up to it is progress.
These survivors have probably been going around and around millions of times over the course of several alternate universes. But each time, they learn something new.
Perhaps they finally find a way to get off the island or find what's been missing in their flawed lives.