Overwatch

[kingkilla56]

Re: Overwatch

Sounds like they need to rebrand the mmr. It is not a personal skill indicator. It's a win/loss ratio.

Just don't lie about what it is, and people won't be so salty about it. If you're queuing in competitive with anything less than a 4 man team of people you know, you're asking for frustration.

Climbing the mmr ladder as is now is completely unsatisfying. I can't wait for the salt to reach maximum overdrive when the season ends and high mmr guys get loads of competitive points and guys with just as much play time get far less simply for not winning. It's such a stark juxtaposition from the rest of the game. Blizzard is begging for Overwatch to drown in toxic.

I'll be sticking with quick play until they add a solo only queue option to competitive.

[Candyman5]

Re: Overwatch

Some screens from last night:



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[The JareBear]

Re: Overwatch

Boltman is right on, couldn't agree more brotha.

Not my hill to die on, I guess I just have a flawed perception.

If anyone is looking to hook up on PS4 today let me know. Had a great run to finish up last night.

If there's one thing I think we can all agree on, it's that this game allows gamers to play the game however best suits them. Not a one size fits all kind of game, which is great. I got nothin but love for all OSers.

[The JareBear]

Re: Overwatch

Alright, I told myself to walk away from this one but I am gonna send out one more quip

Who is the better player, Steph Curry or Dahntay Jones? Who was the better hitter, Tony Gwynn, or Whoever The Worst Player On The Yankees Was? Is Brock Osweiler a better player than Cam Newton?

Team Wins do not make a single player great, alone. They are part of the equation, but so is individual talent. If a guy sits back and just camps his objective, but sees no action because his 5 teammates are slaughtering my team before we get there, that guy isn't a better player than me. I'm sorry.

The game tracks EVERYTHING, hero specific stats, movement stats, EVERYTHING. The play of the game system already ranks plays in "importance" as far as winning games as a team. There is absolutely a way Blizzard could reasonably weigh team wins AS WELL as individual performance.

One good player simply cannot always, or even often, make up for 5 lone wolf randoms who just march in alone and become enemy team Ultimate Fuel Buffet.

[sportsdude]

Re: Overwatch

Alright, I told myself to walk away from this one but I am gonna send out one more quip

Who is the better player, Steph Curry or Dahntay Jones? Who was the better hitter, Tony Gwynn, or Whoever The Worst Player On The Yankees Was? Is Brock Osweiler a better player than Cam Newton?

Team Wins do not make a single player great, alone. They are part of the equation, but so is individual talent. If a guy sits back and just camps his objective, but sees no action because his 5 teammates are slaughtering my team before we get there, that guy isn't a better player than me. I'm sorry.

The game tracks EVERYTHING, hero specific stats, movement stats, EVERYTHING. The play of the game system already ranks plays in "importance" as far as winning games as a team. There is absolutely a way Blizzard could reasonably weigh team wins AS WELL as individual performance.

One good player simply cannot always, or even often, make up for 5 lone wolf randoms who just march in alone and become enemy team Ultimate Fuel Buffet.

I see what you are saying, but it is sort of apples-to-oranges here. Consider that if you do weight individual performances as heavily as you are suggesting, then you have to consider how to weight the performances of individual heroes.

For Soldier 76 you can weight by damage done, for Reinhardt it's by blocking done. Then look at somebody like Mercy. She does the least amount of damage in the game, by far, does no shielding, blocking, etc. You could only weigh her by healing done. So then you have a teammate pick Pharah, shoot rockets into the wall all game and have Mercy heal her. Mercy gets 15K healing and even though her team lost because two people were sitting in spawn to boost Mercy's healing, she gets increased MMR because of the heavy weight of her healing. That is not only abusing the system, but is unfair to the other 10 players in the game. You would never see something like this happen in the NBA or MLB.

If you give considerable weight to individual performances you open up the game to abuse and griefing, and Blizzard desperately wants to avoid this. In Hearthstone you can't even talk to you opponent unless you add them as a friend first. In Heroes of the Storm you cannot talk to the enemy team at all during the game.

To be honest, Overwatch is such a unique game that I'm not sure you can have a proper ranked mode that accurately places players and teams.

[CC]

Re: Overwatch

Did they make matches longer or something?

[bcruise]

Re: Overwatch

Did they make matches longer or something?

For competitive? Yeah, they have more rounds per match. Each team takes turns on attack/defense, but those two phases combined count as one whole match. In addition, extra "sudden death" rounds can happen if the teams are tied on points (objectives completed, more or less) after each side has done both.

Also, point capture maps are best of 5.

[The JareBear]

Re: Overwatch

I think it's one of those things where neither side is gonna change their mind. Variety is the spice of life, as the dad always told me. More power to y'all


It's been cool noticing different trends in Competetive Play and getting different team comps than what I usually saw in Quick Play.

So far, on PS4 at least, I've seen Pharah way way more often from enemy teams. Sometimes multiple Pharahs. I watched a guy routinely rocket up and find perfect angles to kill my turret, it was great. I like to learn from players who are better than me like that.

Lot more tanks as well, in most of my comp matches so far each team has had at least 2 tanks, often times 3.

I see Widowmaker and Hanzo a lot less. McCree hardly ever so far (more of a nerf thing than a mode thing).

I'm really curious how the game changes in console after the Torb nerf hits.

I really enjoy the Competetive mode setup. I haven't had a game last an hour but it definitely plays longer, but I like that. Quick Play is there to hop in and out, stay in the lobby as long as you want, play at your own pace kind of deal. I feel Competetive mode is more of an event. Each game is a big deal, I love the time it an can take to lose or win, I look at it like playing a user game of Madden. It's kinda like in Paragon I play the AI when I wanna just get through a game in 20 mins, I play users when I am ready to go "go hard" and know I'm gonna be investing 45 mins or more.

Games can get super intense, going to round 5 of KOTH each team scraping everything they got together to push at the right times and hold the point, it's just so awesome to me. Like I said, if it launched with comp mode

The mode definitely isn't perfect though, I trust Blizzard will continue to improve it and make it more friendly to everyone. I continue to hope that console players will start communicating more, but that may be a false endeavor

[kingkilla56]

Re: Overwatch

I see what you are saying, but it is sort of apples-to-oranges here. Consider that if you do weight individual performances as heavily as you are suggesting, then you have to consider how to weight the performances of individual heroes.

For Soldier 76 you can weight by damage done, for Reinhardt it's by blocking done. Then look at somebody like Mercy. She does the least amount of damage in the game, by far, does no shielding, blocking, etc. You could only weigh her by healing done. So then you have a teammate pick Pharah, shoot rockets into the wall all game and have Mercy heal her. Mercy gets 15K healing and even though her team lost because two people were sitting in spawn to boost Mercy's healing, she gets increased MMR because of the heavy weight of her healing. That is not only abusing the system, but is unfair to the other 10 players in the game. You would never see something like this happen in the NBA or MLB.

If you give considerable weight to individual performances you open up the game to abuse and griefing, and Blizzard desperately wants to avoid this. In Hearthstone you can't even talk to you opponent unless you add them as a friend first. In Heroes of the Storm you cannot talk to the enemy team at all during the game.

To be honest, Overwatch is such a unique game that I'm not sure you can have a proper ranked mode that accurately places players and teams.

Jarebear's nba analogy may not be perfect, but it has a point. Andrew Bogut would be given a higher rank than Anthony Davis simply because Bogut was on a historically good team. But would anyone on the planet argue that Bogut is better than Davis? This is how Overwatch competitive functions right now.

I'd rather you move up the ladder based on how you perform your role, offense defense builder or support, and that weigh on your mmr more than the simple win/loss.

[KSUowls]

Re: Overwatch

Probably my most successful night in Overwatch. Ratbelly and I did Quickplay and went 9-1 if my math is right. Several of the games weren't even close.

[The JareBear]

Re: Overwatch

I've been reading about a big problem across all platforms is people quitting games mid match in comp play. Seems pretty lame. Hope I don't run across this problem and I feel for you guys who already have

[The JareBear]

Re: Overwatch

Pretty sure my teams went something like 2-8 or 3-8 tonight. I lost 6 ranks. Just an all out mud stomping. I had my worst night ever, individually, probably since the first week of release.

It seems to me that typically the difference between a winning team and a losing team is either A.) which team has a Reinhardt, or B.) which team has guys actively flanking and harassing side paths instead of cramming the whole group together on the main lane.

I got my butt handed to me tonight, I guess it was karma.

There was a Hanzo we played in the last marsh who was the best player I've ever seen in the game, looked like he was playing with a mouse. He probably went 38-2 in about a 5 minute span, no joke.

In retrospect, I should have gone Genji and ****ed his world up. That's on me. We also had a few matches where we just kept into a bastion corner setup and getting mowed down.

I'm #2 in Medals earned according to Watcher.gg, I fell from 11 to 32 in KDA. I know, I know, numbers don't matter.

I'm gonna watch some videos of high level players and figure out how to improve my game.

[Speedy]

Re: Overwatch

All I'm seeing are Torjborn's or the Bastiam/Reinhardt combo.

I'm going back to casual for a while.

[87Birdman]

Re: Overwatch

There's definitely a way to weigh individual performances ever-so-slightly into the equation

I'm gonna post more on this later, still playing.

Bottom line is if I go 51-6 with 21k healing in one match, I'm sorry but it wasn't my fault we lost

I'm guessing that stat line was with a Lucio but that biggest thing I'm taking from that stat is the only way that is possible is if it is a competitive match. So while yes it sucks to lose those matches that is the whole point of the mmr and getting teams together to create a competitive game.

You say your teammates were terrible and not the reason you list because that stat line I also see the other team wad probably also filled with incompetent teammates that didn't know to kill the healer and couldn't ficus fire on single targets hence the high heal numbers.

And that was just based off the stat line you posted. You start weighing individual stats you end up with people focusing on those first.

And then what happens if you win but you don't have the best stats do you lose points or do you end up with winning team all going up and half the losing team going up also?

Like take a Winston or Mei that doesn't end with the best stats but are vital to the team winning by either harassing blocking off routes.

Forcing people to play for a win is a bigger incentive to create a competitive game than individual stats because you won't have stat watchers going for those instead of wins. And the ones that play team death match will fall and it will hopefully separate them out. Of coarse this is just my opinion.

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[kingkilla56]

Re: Overwatch

I'm guessing that stat line was with a Lucio but that biggest thing I'm taking from that stat is the only way that is possible is if it is a competitive match. So while yes it sucks to lose those matches that is the whole point of the mmr and getting teams together to create a competitive game.

You say your teammates were terrible and not the reason you list because that stat line I also see the other team wad probably also filled with incompetent teammates that didn't know to kill the healer and couldn't ficus fire on single targets hence the high heal numbers.

And that was just based off the stat line you posted. You start weighing individual stats you end up with people focusing on those first.

And then what happens if you win but you don't have the best stats do you lose points or do you end up with winning team all going up and half the losing team going up also?

Like take a Winston or Mei that doesn't end with the best stats but are vital to the team winning by either harassing blocking off routes.

Forcing people to play for a win is a bigger incentive to create a competitive game than individual stats because you won't have stat watchers going for those instead of wins. And the ones that play team death match will fall and it will hopefully separate them out. Of coarse this is just my opinion.

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Then competitive should be reserved for players who queue as 6. That team gets an mmr based on win and loss. And they can only compete in competitive as a unit against other units of 6. Only then will mmr make any sense.

If your personal output has no impact on your personal mmr, then what are we even doing here?