GUYS, What is your Perspective on Tipping

[kehlis]

Re: GUYS, What is your Perspective on Tipping

My biggest complaint with tipping expectations is how the appropriate tip is tied into overall bill.

Bringing a plate with a BLT is apparently less difficult to do for a server than bringing a plate with a porterhouse steak.

So (I'm an IPA drinker) let's say a friend and I go out for dinner.

I get 2 IPA's @ $7.50 each and a steak for (lets say) $18.

My friend get's two Miller Lites @ $3.50 each and a BLT for $6.

My bill ends up at $33 with a 15% tip being $4.95

My friends bill is $13 with a 15% tip being $1.95.


The server brought us both 2 beers and a plate of food.

It's not more difficult to bring out an IPA than a ML nor is it more difficult to bring out a steak than a BLT. I just find this discrepancy amusing (maybe?).


Edit: I made my example about how it can be a negative for the consumer but this can be a negative for servers as well because it can hurt their tips if they work at places that offer food and drink specials.

I go to the same place 2 or 3 times a week for lunch and a few days a week they give tremendous lunch specials. My bill one day can be $16 and another day could be $8 for the same amount of work. I don't personally adjust my tips (to a lower amount) on the days I'm eating the special but I can see how others would.



*****Please note, this is not indicative of my tipping habits but about the "expectations" of society.

[Beantown]

GUYS, What is your Perspective on Tipping

I've never heard a reasonable response to that argument, Khelis - and I've worked in restaurants for almost 10 years now.

There's about a ...10% chance, and I think that might even be generous, that I would keep being a server/bartender if tipping went away at the restaurant I worked at. There are much less stressful jobs that pay 14 an hour (if that was what they set the pay at) and it is easier to get promotions/benefits/etc. at those jobs than it is as a server. I do what I do and put up with the incredibly wide variety of people that I wait on because the money is better than those "easier" jobs.

Also, comparing it to bank teller jobs, or cashier jobs, or even just a regular data entry desk job is hard to do for one main reason - the shifts. Most non-restaurant jobs give you a set schedule, you work your standard 8 hour shifts, etc. A restaurant dinner shift can be anywhere from 3-6 hours at most places. That's it. Hourly pay doesn't work for those people who can't work the double shifts for whatever reason.

People that don't think service will suffer are fooling themselves. Servers will become monotonous robots who all give you the same, basic spiel because inputting our personality wouldn't matter anymore. The server wouldn't give two ****s about whether or not you had a good experience as long as they did their job to a satisfactory level that wouldn't get them fired.

I get that people hate the tipping system, and I agree it does suck and parts make no sense, but if it offends you that much - don't go out to eat. Don't be that ******* that goes out and doesn't leave a tip or leaves a 5% tip because of some stupid moral high ground. Cook for yourself or get takeout and go home, please please please.

[XtremeDunkz]

Re: GUYS, What is your Perspective on Tipping

I've never heard a reasonable response to that argument, Khelis - and I've worked in restaurants for almost 10 years now.

There's about a ...10% chance, and I think that might even be generous, that I would keep being a server/bartender if tipping went away at the restaurant I worked at. There are much less stressful jobs that pay 14 an hour (if that was what they set the pay at) and it is easier to get promotions/benefits/etc. at those jobs than it is as a server. I do what I do and put up with the incredibly wide variety of people that I wait on because the money is better than those "easier" jobs.

Also, comparing it to bank teller jobs, or cashier jobs, or even just a regular data entry desk job is hard to do for one main reason - the shifts. Most non-restaurant jobs give you a set schedule, you work your standard 8 hour shifts, etc. A restaurant dinner shift can be anywhere from 3-6 hours at most places. That's it. Hourly pay doesn't work for those people who can't work the double shifts for whatever reason.

People that don't think service will suffer are fooling themselves. Servers will become monotonous robots who all give you the same, basic spiel because inputting our personality wouldn't matter anymore. The server wouldn't give two ****s about whether or not you had a good experience as long as they did their job to a satisfactory level that wouldn't get them fired.

I get that people hate the tipping system, and I agree it does suck and parts make no sense, but if it offends you that much - don't go out to eat. Don't be that ******* that goes out and doesn't leave a tip or leaves a 5% tip because of some stupid moral high ground. Cook for yourself or get takeout and go home, please please please.

I consider waiting tables the equivalent of retail jobs. The awful hours, awful customers, constantly on your feet, etc. Retail workers get paid mainly minimum wage (8-10 an hour) get called in for 4 hour shifts, nights and weekends. Same deal yet no chance of tips for the most part.

The fact that servers feel entitles to greater than $15 an hour for their job shows clearly that the system is broken. I have friends with college degrees that started out int heir career field making $12 an hour after earning their degree and paying off student loans. My company is currently starting new grads out at $15.75 an hour their first year.

I have a couple buddies that wait tables at a chain restaurant, so not even a high end place, that will come home with over $200 a night pretty much every Friday/Saturday at minimum. Not to mention they clean up on Sundays during football season as well. Everything else is just gravy at that point and they sometimes nearly match what I make with a Masters and 6 years at my company. And they still have the nerve to complain about not getting enough tips!

All in all good for them for taking advantage of the current market. But it is not right and it should and I believe will change.

[jeremym480]

Re: GUYS, What is your Perspective on Tipping

I consider waiting tables the equivalent of retail jobs. The awful hours, awful customers, constantly on your feet, etc. Retail workers get paid mainly minimum wage (8-10 an hour) get called in for 4 hour shifts, nights and weekends. Same deal yet no chance of tips for the most part.

I've never waited tables, but I don't feel that that's a good comparison for someone working at a half way decent restaurant. Maybe you can compare someone who works at a fast food joint to someone who works low-end retail dollar store or something. However, comparing a dollar store employee to a server who works at a restaurant where the server has to be knowledgeable and actually cares about doing a good job doesn't really seem fair to me.

For my anniversary every year my wife and I go to the same restaurant. It cost $85 per person for a 7 course meal. It's expensive and a big part the cost is paying for the atmosphere of dining in a almost 250 year old plantation home. Having a knowledgeable waiter who provides exceptional service and who could tell me about each of the three types or breads/butters or answer anything about the menu without having to go ask someone certainly made for a more pleasant dining experience. I certainly don't expect that kind of service from a waiting tables at the Waffle House.

I worked commissioned retail in my early twenties and I made much more than $8-10 an hour and some of the more established salespeople there even made six figures. Those guys had to be more than just "order takers". They were knowledgeable about our products and could answer any question the customer asked. They were attentive and made sure to build a rapport with their customers so that they would remember them and ask from them again (and again). I guess you could compare that type of job to someone waiting tables at an upscale restaurant.... My point is you can't just lump all retail and all servers in together because there is a difference between them.

[XtremeDunkz]

Re: GUYS, What is your Perspective on Tipping

I've never waited tables, but I don't feel that that's a good comparison for someone working at a half way decent restaurant. Maybe you can compare someone who works at a fast food joint to someone who works low-end retail dollar store or something. However, comparing a dollar store employee to a server who works at a restaurant where the server has to be knowledgeable and actually cares about doing a good job doesn't really seem fair to me.

For my anniversary every year my wife and I go to the same restaurant. It cost $85 per person for a 7 course meal. It's expensive and a big part the cost is paying for the atmosphere of dining in a almost 250 year old plantation home. Having a knowledgeable waiter who provides exceptional service and who could tell me about each of the three types or breads/butters or answer anything about the menu without having to go ask someone certainly made for a more pleasant dining experience. I certainly don't expect that kind of service from a waiting tables at the Waffle House.

I worked commissioned retail in my early twenties and I made much more than $8-10 an hour and some of the more established salespeople there even made six figures. Those guys had to be more than just "order takers". They were knowledgeable about our products and could answer any question the customer asked. They were attentive and made sure to build a rapport with their customers so that they would remember them and ask from them again (and again). I guess you could compare that type of job to someone waiting tables at an upscale restaurant.... My point is you can't just lump all retail and all servers in together because there is a difference between them.

Now you are comparing Apples to Oranges. I specifically stated chain restaurants in my post. High end restaurants charge more for the experience, therefor could offer higher hourly wages to their servers even without tips.

[jeremym480]

Re: GUYS, What is your Perspective on Tipping

Now you are comparing Apples to Oranges. I specifically stated chain restaurants in my post. High end restaurants charge more for the experience, therefor could offer higher hourly wages to their servers even without tips.

My bad. I must have missed the chain restaurant part later in your post. I still don't think that an hourly wage would work for an upscale restaurant like that though.

[XtremeDunkz]

Re: GUYS, What is your Perspective on Tipping

My bad. I must have missed the chain restaurant part later in your post. I still don't think that an hourly wage would work for an upscale restaurant like that though.

In most upscale restaurants the servers are dealing with a much thinner menu than you would find at an applebees or chilis. When they are hired they go through tasting sessions where they try the whole menu and learn how to explain it, similar to training of any other job. I just personally don't see memorizing a menu as something worthy of upwards to $20 an hour. Just my opinion though.

[DonkeyJote]

Re: GUYS, What is your Perspective on Tipping

I've never waited tables, but I don't feel that that's a good comparison for someone working at a half way decent restaurant. Maybe you can compare someone who works at a fast food joint to someone who works low-end retail dollar store or something. However, comparing a dollar store employee to a server who works at a restaurant where the server has to be knowledgeable and actually cares about doing a good job doesn't really seem fair to me.

For my anniversary every year my wife and I go to the same restaurant. It cost $85 per person for a 7 course meal. It's expensive and a big part the cost is paying for the atmosphere of dining in a almost 250 year old plantation home. Having a knowledgeable waiter who provides exceptional service and who could tell me about each of the three types or breads/butters or answer anything about the menu without having to go ask someone certainly made for a more pleasant dining experience. I certainly don't expect that kind of service from a waiting tables at the Waffle House.

I worked commissioned retail in my early twenties and I made much more than $8-10 an hour and some of the more established salespeople there even made six figures. Those guys had to be more than just "order takers". They were knowledgeable about our products and could answer any question the customer asked. They were attentive and made sure to build a rapport with their customers so that they would remember them and ask from them again (and again). I guess you could compare that type of job to someone waiting tables at an upscale restaurant.... My point is you can't just lump all retail and all servers in together because there is a difference between them.

As someone who has spent a great portion of his adult life in food service, notably a McDonald's, a Starbucks, and a grocery store deli, I take offense to this. You think at any of those I don't have to know every damn thing that goes into everything on that menu? At McDonald's, I had to know not only what we sold, but how much it all cost. I had to know how to make the sandwiches, espressos, ice cream, cook the meat, and how to do it quickly. In my position, I needed to know how to store it all, I needed to know the symptoms of every food born illness, tondo ordering, scheduling, putting people in the right position, equipment maintenance, cleaning. All for $10/hr, no tips. At the deli, I needed to know off the top of my head exactly what was in the aprroximate 40 meats we carried, as well as all of the different salads, platters, dips, hot food items, along with how to make all those hot food items and salads. At Starbucks, I needed to know how to make every drink (including damn secret menu drinks that aren't a real thing, but we're expected to know it anyway) as well as being able to describe the flavor profile, based on our own experience, of every individual roast of coffee sold. So please, don't tell me that someone has to be more knowledgeable, or that their job is more difficult, because they work at a more expensive restuaunt.

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[jeremym480]

Re: GUYS, What is your Perspective on Tipping

As someone who has spent a great portion of his adult life in food service, notably a McDonald's, a Starbucks, and a grocery store deli, I take offense to this. You think at any of those I don't have to know every damn thing that goes into everything on that menu? At McDonald's, I had to know not only what we sold, but how much it all cost. I had to know how to make the sandwiches, espressos, ice cream, cook the meat, and how to do it quickly. In my position, I needed to know how to store it all, I needed to know the symptoms of every food born illness, tondo ordering, scheduling, putting people in the right position, equipment maintenance, cleaning. All for $10/hr, no tips. At the deli, I needed to know off the top of my head exactly what was in the aprroximate 40 meats we carried, as well as all of the different salads, platters, dips, hot food items, along with how to make all those hot food items and salads. At Starbucks, I needed to know how to make every drink (including damn secret menu drinks that aren't a real thing, but we're expected to know it anyway) as well as being able to describe the flavor profile, based on our own experience, of every individual roast of coffee sold. So please, don't tell me that someone has to be more knowledgeable, or that their job is more difficult, because they work at a more expensive restuaunt.

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Sorry to have offended you, but in my experience you're the exception and not the rule. I've certainly had my share of horrible servers or salesman before. However, those dwarf the amount of times I've had to walk into a fast food restaurant after going through a drive through because of an incorrect order or had someone at a chain restaurant not check on us for 10+ minutes at a time.

[slickdtc]

GUYS, What is your Perspective on Tipping

You guys are underselling the beating servers take from customers. Practically every day a customer does or wants something completely outrageous.

You can go above and beyond, but people will manufacture a complaint. It's honestly sick. So glad I gave it up and that my wife did too.

I've worked restaurants (from the bottom to the top), retail, and now an office job. I gave up serving, despite the money, because it simply sucks having to deal with customers in that capacity where they treat you like their bitch. When you take away the incentive of being paid more, you take away the appeal of working in a restaurant. There's no reason to work in one if there are fixed wages. Maybe that's why tips were introduced; so the good people could make up for the ****ty experience.

Retail doesn't hold a candle to the BS servers deal with. Not even close.

[XtremeDunkz]

Re: GUYS, What is your Perspective on Tipping

You guys are underselling the beating servers take from customers. Practically every day a customer does or wants something completely outrageous.

You can go above and beyond, but people will manufacture a complaint. It's honestly sick. So glad I gave it up and that my wife did too.

I've worked restaurants (from the bottom to the top), retail, and now an office job. I gave up serving, despite the money, because it simply sucks having to deal with customers in that capacity where they treat you like their bitch. When you take away the incentive of being paid more, you take away the appeal of working in a restaurant. There's no reason to work in one if there are fixed wages. Maybe that's why tips were introduced; so the good people could make up for the ****ty experience.

Retail doesn't hold a candle to the BS servers deal with. Not even close.

It all depends where you work. I have worked at Wal-Mart as well as several years working in Casinos. I would argue they both have it much worse, for much less pay.

[kehlis]

Re: GUYS, What is your Perspective on Tipping

You guys are underselling the beating servers take from customers. Practically every day a customer does or wants something completely outrageous.

You can go above and beyond, but people will manufacture a complaint. It's honestly sick. So glad I gave it up and that my wife did too.

Sorry man but this is in no way unique to the service industry. I deal with it every day.

I haven't seen anyone in this thread undersell it either. I think everyone has shown an understanding for those that work in the service industry.

[slickdtc]

GUYS, What is your Perspective on Tipping

Sorry man but this is in no way unique to the service industry. I deal with it every day.



I haven't seen anyone in this thread undersell it either. I think everyone has shown an understanding for those that work in the service industry.

You're right. I've got some friends and family who work in call centers. But at least they're behind a phone, an underrated aspect. I didn't mind dealing with bitching customers on the phone but standing there and having to just accept it face to face burned me up.

They are paid pretty well too. Plus some offer benefits and other perks.

I guess serving will kind of be like live call centers now once tips are removed. I'd rather be in an office on the phone for the same rate.

[DonkeyJote]

Re: GUYS, What is your Perspective on Tipping

Sorry to have offended you, but in my experience you're the exception and not the rule. I've certainly had my share of horrible servers or salesman before. However, those dwarf the amount of times I've had to walk into a fast food restaurant after going through a drive through because of an incorrect order or had someone at a chain restaurant not check on us for 10+ minutes at a time.

In my experience, having worked in these places, I'm not the exception. There are reasons there is that perception though. The person working the front counter, the face people are dealing with, is almost always the least experienced person on staff, and probably the worst. And when you go through a drive thru at a fast food, realize that you are one of 50+ customers that hour, and they are doing everything as fast as possible. Mistakes are going to happen. When you go to more high end places, they are afforded the opportunity to take time quick service resturaunts, and many chains, simply don't have. The not checking in on you part is often a sign of how much workload they have, not quality of server.

In my experience, how customers treat you is based on expectation and how companies handle customers. Everyone thinks they're better or smarter than a McDonald's employee, so they treat them like trash. I worked at that deli and the starbucks, in the same building, simultaneously. Got treated by customers 10x better at Starbucks. It was uncanny. The same customer would be a jerk everyday at the deli, and the picture of politeness at Starbucks. And then there's the "customer is always right" nonsense, which gives customers license to treat people badly and get whatever they want.

But if tips go away, here's a little tip; you won't get rude servers if you weren't rude yourself. Popping an attitude is the fastest way to get ignored/bad service. If you're cool, you'll get good service. Me and a buddy who has also worked in service for a long time, both realized we literally never get bad service, because we treat servers with the same level of respect as we want to get. I'm not a fantastic tipper (15-20%, $1 per drink), but I get fantastic service pretty much everywhere I go.

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[dickey1331]

Re: GUYS, What is your Perspective on Tipping

It will be interesting to see America go to no tips and see how much servers would get paid. I'd consider them on the retail / entry level job and wouldn't expect them to get paid that much.

My biggest problem with tipping is I don't like to tip for doing your job, unless you do an exceptional job but with restaurants you have to tip. Like tipping maids in a hotel. I don't see the reason to tip.