The disturbing trend at OS

[DrJones]

Re: The disturbing trend at OS

No, people get fired when games fail to sell. Execs are happy with growth not with marketing department.

Oh, well that's good to know. I must've been seeing things when people would get replaced for not "cooperating" with marketing. How many years have you worked in the gaming industry again?

[grunt]

Re: The disturbing trend at OS

Oh, well that's good to know. I must've been seeing things when people would get replaced for not "cooperating" with marketing. How many years have you worked in the gaming industry again?

None and you? How many years I worked in economic development......20 years.

[DrJones]

Re: The disturbing trend at OS

None and you? How many years I worked in economic development......20 years.

Ten. I've worked on 14 titles for EA and 2K over that stretch as a producer/designer. My posts aren't speculation, I'm speaking from personal experience.

[grunt]

Re: The disturbing trend at OS

Ten. I've worked on 14 titles for EA and 2K over that stretch as a producer/designer. My posts aren't speculation, I'm speaking from personal experience.

Cool. So, marketing had more influence with the execs than a profitable product? I am not trying to be a smart ***.

[PVarck31]

Re: The disturbing trend at OS

I still don't understand how there are people out there who say we have no right to complain. Thats how things get better. People were fed up with Madden after 08 and 09. Look what happened with 10. While still not great, its very much improved. If we stay on the devs, (I don't mean insulting them) the game will keep getting better. Although I truly believe we wont see a great Madden until the next systems drop due to fundamental problems with the games engine(s). Thats for another discussion though.

[ODogg]

Re: The disturbing trend at OS

I think madden will be a lot WORSE when we get the next gen of systems. We will see all of our improvements through the past few years go down the toilet.

I also believe we all walk a dangerous line between advocating improvement while also not stooping to the level of negative nellie's who get ignored due to an attitude that develops that they can never be pleased. It's certainly a line that some people have no idea of how to tread as apparent from reading this forum after each major release.

[PVarck31]

Re: The disturbing trend at OS

I think madden will be a lot WORSE when we get the next gen of systems. We will see all of our improvements through the past few years go down the toilet.

I also believe we all walk a dangerous line between advocating improvement while also not stooping to the level of negative nellie's who get ignored due to an attitude that develops that they can never be pleased. It's certainly a line that some people have no idea of how to tread as apparent from reading this forum after each major release.

You might be right. It may take a couple of years or 5 to get it right on the next-next-gen systems. Lets hope they can design an engine that gets it right at first. I just wish they would have used the PS2 engine this gen. Sorry Im getting way off topic.

[Phobia]

Re: The disturbing trend at OS

You might be right. It may take a couple of years or 5 to get it right on the next-next-gen systems. Lets hope they can design an engine that gets it right at first. I just wish they would have used the PS2 engine this gen. Sorry Im getting way off topic.

whole other topic, but I wish to Pjv

[KG]

Re: The disturbing trend at OS

IMO video games have actually progressed faster, technologically speaking, than most other areas of entertainment...

i think they are pushing the envelope.. if you think it's so easy, go get your Computer Science degree and get to coding.

See rudy's post below

This is a complete cop out post. You better NEVER question a coach's call in a game since you could never be a college or pro coach then. I hate it when people say things like, "Why don't you try to make a better game yourself?" I can't fix a car but if a car company makes a piece of crap I have the right to complain. I don't make TV shows or movies either but I'll still comment on whether I like a show or not. The same thing can be said for every industry out there. Just because I can't design a video game does not give a developer a "Get out of Jail free card". It doesn't mean a developer should be attacked personally or that people should be rude either. But people can still critique a product even if they can't make it.

[ODogg]

Re: The disturbing trend at OS

If the only people who could enjoy a creation for it's true value is those who create it then the world would be a very, very boring place indeed..

[Speedy]

Re: The disturbing trend at OS

I work in sales. And yesterday, I had a customer of mine busting my balls all day because I screwed something up. It was emails, phone messages, or when I'd call to correct the issue, I'd hear it from him again. Thats frustrating as all get out. It pissed me off, it made me not want to call him, or even deal with him, but of course I had to. And that was only one person. Imagine if I'd heard from every person at that business. They were posting message after message telling me how stupid I was, how they couldn't believe that I screwed this up, asking what was I thinking, or what have you.

I also work in sales, CB but when I make mistake that angers a customer I figure it out and fix it so it won't happen again - I'm sure you're the same way. If there's a numerous amount of customers with the same issue then the problem is magnified and I spend all of my time working to solve it. If the same issue keeps happening to the same customer eventually he'll get upset enough where he looks for another vendor/distributer.

In correlation, think of it like this: Madden has had the same issues for a few years now and have heard the backlash from us customers. It should eventually come to a point that the devs realize that there more than 1 customer having the isssue so they'd go to the source, find the problem and fit it so it won't happen again unfortunately it doesn't seem like that's the case.

I think Madden is a good game - which is why I bought it for the first time in 5 years - but there are some glaring issues which comprimises the fundamentals of football. I certainly appreciate the dev's prescence here and the insight they provide; granted they get a lot of abuse but some of the negativity (not the idiot posters but those who constructively criticize the game) is warranted. These guys make the game and work the ins-and-outs so if the same issues every single year seem to be ignored and ostracized again, the criticism is justified.

[rudyjuly2]

Re: The disturbing trend at OS

If EA takes this long to get football right on the next gen I won't be buying a new console for a LONG time. I'd rather they just port the games over, upgrade the player models and slowly work on improving the gameplay over time. That way we never go backwards. I'll take smaller improvements every year if it means we never take a big step back again.

[PVarck31]

Re: The disturbing trend at OS

If EA takes this long to get football right on the next gen I won't be buying a new console for a LONG time. I'd rather they just port the games over, upgrade the player models and slowly work on improving the gameplay over time. That way we never go backwards. I'll take smaller improvements every year if it means we never take a big step back again.

I agree, but do you really want Madden's current engine ported to the next batch of systems?

[DrJones]

Re: The disturbing trend at OS

Cool. So, marketing had more influence with the execs than a profitable product? I am not trying to be a smart ***.

Unfortunately, yes. Marketing has a disproportionate amount of influence at EA (or at least, during the seven years I was there). They're always pushing to market something to the masses, not the hardcore gamers, whom they suspect (rightly at times) will buy the game regardless. This kind of thinking waxes and wanes a bit, and it can vary by studio and team (some people in Marketing "get it", some don't). It was at its worst in the early 2000's. Some of the nonsense that I heard in meetings during that time in particular made me want to tear my hair out. At the end of the day, you've got to listen to the people who pay your salary, whether you agree with them or not, and hope that in the end, sanity will prevail (it does sometimes).

[DrJones]

Re: The disturbing trend at OS

In correlation, think of it like this: Madden has had the same issues for a few years now and have heard the backlash from us customers. It should eventually come to a point that the devs realize that there more than 1 customer having the isssue so they'd go to the source, find the problem and fit it so it won't happen again unfortunately it doesn't seem like that's the case.

I can't speak for Madden, as I've never worked on it. But I have worked on games where fixing annoying issue A leads to brand-new issues B, C, and D, and it becomes more trouble than it's worth. Especially when higher-ups never like to hear about "fixing", always "innovating" (ie, shiny new features).