The disturbing trend at OS

[RynoAid]

Re: The disturbing trend at OS

It should be that way. Technology has advanced in so many other ways that video games should be held to the same standard, especially sports games. Video game companies need to keep pushing the envelope, especially with all of the competition out there.

IMO video games have actually progressed faster, technologically speaking, than most other areas of entertainment...

i think they are pushing the envelope.. if you think it's so easy, go get your Computer Science degree and get to coding.

[AuburnAlumni]

Re: The disturbing trend at OS

I'm 32 years old.

THIS was one of my favorite games when I was a kid on my Intellivision. Kind of shows you how far we have come in 25 years.

Dungeons and Dragons fo lifez!! *Note* Got to love the awesome "Dragon Breathing" sound effects.

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[DC]

Re: The disturbing trend at OS

I grew up on Nintendo. I demand more from these companies. Does that mean I am ungrateful?

[ODogg]

Re: The disturbing trend at OS

I grew up on Nintendo. I demand more from these companies. Does that mean I am ungrateful?

Read my post above and you'll see your answer..

[BatsareBugs]

Re: The disturbing trend at OS

While I have certain expectations for games as they are now, nothing stops me from appreciating what we have now since I was fortunate enough to enjoy the NES, SNES, Genesis, PSX, and so on. I sure missed out a few great games that came out more than a decade ago.

There are people who will never understand how difficult it is to program a game. Heck, I don't know if some of you guys played SimCity 4 and had the BAT and all that customization stuff, but you have to dedicate time and what not to get something "right", and along the way you have unexpected bugs and problems with what you're working. I know that is minute to what developers face everyday, but if I find myself having some trouble with that, I can't imagine what these guys deal with on a day-to-day basis.

[Millennium]

Re: The disturbing trend at OS

I grew up on Nintendo. I demand more from these companies. Does that mean I am ungrateful?

Demanding more, and being a completely disrespectful are two different things (not you specifically, DC, in general).

We have too many posters who feel it is their "right" to yell at the developers. Notice I didn't say "constructively criticize", I said flat out and blatantly attack people that have, in most cases, put their life's work into something you pop in for 5 minutes and deem "broken".

The trend is leaning towards attacks these days. So, the modding trend will lean more towards "permanent bans" instead of "1 week cell stays".

[Scottdau]

Re: The disturbing trend at OS

Demanding more, and being a completely disrespectful are two different things (not you specifically, DC, in general).

We have too many posters who feel it is their "right" to yell at the developers. Notice I didn't say "constructively criticize", I said flat out and blatantly attack people that have, in most cases, put their life's work into something you pop in for 5 minutes and deem "broken".

The trend is leaning towards attacks these days. So, the modding trend will lean more towards "permanent bans" instead of "1 week cell stays".

Very good post!

[ODogg]

Re: The disturbing trend at OS

Yeah Millenium nailed it, there is a definite sense of entitlement and a lack of respect going on in these forums that, quite frankly, is somewhat appalling. Maybe some of these folks should take a few computer science courses and they'd feel a bit different about criticizing these guys so much?

[BatsareBugs]

Re: The disturbing trend at OS

Yeah Millenium nailed it, there is a definite sense of entitlement and a lack of respect going on in these forums that, quite frankly, is somewhat appalling. Maybe some of these folks should take a few computer science courses and they'd feel a bit different about criticizing these guys so much?

I remember mentioning this a few months ago in the MLB 09 The Show forums and a couple of people sure got on my case. Good times!

[bcruise]

Re: The disturbing trend at OS

Another relevant point to this discussion (and more personal for some of the OS community):

Roster makers who do their thing out of nothing more than love for a particular game seem to take almost as much crap as the developers do these days. The sense of entitlement thing shows up in many, many different forms. Actually, it's even started to carry over into sliders as well.

Great post Mill.

[Jistic]

Re: The disturbing trend at OS

I agree mostly. Being old though our games were so simple that they still required a lot of imagination. It wasn't just blobs on a screen.

I don't fall for the hype as much anymore which is why I got Gamefly.

MW:2 is a perfect example for me. The world is falling over itself over this game. It's supposed to be GOTY easily. But to me it's an arcadey over the top fun shooter. It's got an uber short SP mode that is way over the top and the MP mode to me is just way too over the top. So a rental is perfect for me. If I bought it I'd be pissed only because it didn't match up with MY expectations.

However, I look at a game like FIFA10. I hate soccer. And I don't know much about it at all. Yet it's the only sports game I'm playing now. Why? Because I wouldn't even know if something was "broken." I read the Fifa threads about stuff being broken and I shrug my shoulders. I have no idea what they're talking about. But I love the game!

Finally I see a game like Dragon Age Origins, especially on the PC is everything that's right about gaming these days. A game like this you're getting more than your money's worth. But it's not a game that's uber hyped like some of these other games that people here on OS just can't over hype enough.

AA I look at that Dungeons and Dragons vid and compare it to a game like Dragon Age or Mass Effect II or Fallout 3 and I know we've come a long way.

I'm burned out on the football titles, that's why for sports I'm playing stuff like soccer.

[countryboy]

Re: The disturbing trend at OS

we are working on re-tooling how we will be communicating, and unfortunately it will not be daily direct interaction here on OS. As much as I loved many aspects of the interaction, it also got way too personal so there needs to be a better way to pull this stuff off that doesn't drive every employee that steps into the community into a depression. For every thread where I might have gotten great feedback on what to improve, there was some other guy making youtube videos about how he thinks I am a liar and posting them in the same thread. That type of s--t can ruin your night or even your weekend. So why put up with that if we don't have to?

Seeing this post really bothers me. Its aggrevating that a developer of a game feels that he can't interact with our community because a few "knuckleheads" feel the need to show their buddy's how awesome they are because they "showed up" a game developer.

We've been awaiting the day that we would have the dev's ear to bend, to get our wants and needs across. To interact with. And just as quickly as it came, in this instance it seems, its going to be gone. Its a damn shame a few ruined it for the many.

But what bugs me even more, is when guys say that a dev should be "more thick-skinned". That they should "man up and deal with it", "the dev is soft", etc...How can anyone expect a developer or anyone to come to a place and constantly be bombarded with insult after insult, and watch as people go out of their way to find something wrong with their game.

I work in sales. And yesterday, I had a customer of mine busting my balls all day because I screwed something up. It was emails, phone messages, or when I'd call to correct the issue, I'd hear it from him again. Thats frustrating as all get out. It pissed me off, it made me not want to call him, or even deal with him, but of course I had to. And that was only one person. Imagine if I'd heard from every person at that business. They were posting message after message telling me how stupid I was, how they couldn't believe that I screwed this up, asking what was I thinking, or what have you.

I guess what I'm getting at, is that I wish people would stop and put themselves in the dev's shoes for a moment. See things from their perspective. But they don't and won't. And now, it seems that we've lost one developer from our boards. I can't help but wonder how many more will follow.

And I understand the mods have a tough time and are doing everything in their power to rid this site of that nonsense, but the problem is that for a post to reprimanded, it has to be posted, meaning its sitting there for everyone to see before its dealt with. And even then, its not always deleted, so its still visible to the public, and that includes the developers.

[PVarck31]

Re: The disturbing trend at OS

There are some games, sports in particular, that deserve criticism. Its not always the developers fault though. The one year cycle for sports games is partly to blame. Another thing I believe is an issue, is the fact that when the next gen systems came out the sports game developers had once chance to get it right for the whole generation. Some did, some didn't.

There are also times when you see a bug or glitch in a game and you just scratch your head and wonder how this could ever get past QA.

With that said, I think the expectations of these sports games to be true simulations is what lets us down the most. The fact is that AI routines are not as advanced as they need to be in order to replicate a true simulation.

[DickDalewood]

Re: The disturbing trend at OS

Another relevant point to this discussion (and more personal for some of the OS community):

Roster makers who do their thing out of nothing more than love for a particular game seem to take almost as much crap as the developers do these days. The sense of entitlement thing shows up in many, many different forms. Actually, it's even started to carry over into sliders as well.

Great post Mill.

Lol, I've noticed this too. They spend their own free time (and a lot of it) to make rosters for, say, NCAA Football, and five minutes after their posted, "What the hell dude, I can believe you left Joe Third String No Name off the roster!! You suck!."

It's like, what??? Seriously, some of these guys are just jerks... and idiots.

[DrJones]

Re: The disturbing trend at OS

Seeing this post really bothers me. Its aggrevating that a developer of a game feels that he can't interact with our community because a few "knuckleheads" feel the need to show their buddy's how awesome they are because they "showed up" a game developer.

We've been awaiting the day that we would have the dev's ear to bend, to get our wants and needs across. To interact with. And just as quickly as it came, in this instance it seems, its going to be gone. Its a damn shame a few ruined it for the many.

But what bugs me even more, is when guys say that a dev should be "more thick-skinned". That they should "man up and deal with it", "the dev is soft", etc...How can anyone expect a developer or anyone to come to a place and constantly be bombarded with insult after insult, and watch as people go out of their way to find something wrong with their game.

I work in sales. And yesterday, I had a customer of mine busting my balls all day because I screwed something up. It was emails, phone messages, or when I'd call to correct the issue, I'd hear it from him again. Thats frustrating as all get out. It pissed me off, it made me not want to call him, or even deal with him, but of course I had to. And that was only one person. Imagine if I'd heard from every person at that business. They were posting message after message telling me how stupid I was, how they couldn't believe that I screwed this up, asking what was I thinking, or what have you.

I guess what I'm getting at, is that I wish people would stop and put themselves in the dev's shoes for a moment. See things from their perspective. But they don't and won't. And now, it seems that we've lost one developer from our boards. I can't help but wonder how many more will follow.

And I understand the mods have a tough time and are doing everything in their power to rid this site of that nonsense, but the problem is that for a post to reprimanded, it has to be posted, meaning its sitting there for everyone to see before its dealt with. And even then, its not always deleted, so its still visible to the public, and that includes the developers.

As a former and hopefully future developer, thanks for this post. Criticism should always be welcome, posters should always tell devs what they like and don't like about a particular game. Personal attacks are uncalled for.

The vast majority of devs know when they're making a good game and when they're making a bad one. I've had plenty of experience with both. Trust me, there's nothing more frustrating than putting in long hours on a product that's doomed to failure for reasons that have nothing to do with your own skill or work ethic. It sucks. Reading on the forums that you're lazy and/or greedy and/or stupid doesn't help. And as countryboy no doubt knows well, in the service industry you're not allowed to defend yourself from verbal abuse from customers (not without risking your job, anyway).

Message boards can be a dangerous place for devs, as these are public forums and there are often (publisher) eyes watching. I know someone who was not only fired, but blackballed from the industry, for accidentally inferring on a forum (not OS) that his company was working on a certain title that hadn't yet been officially made public. We've got to be careful, as we have more than $60 on the line.