Input on indoor smoking needed

[ImTellinTim]

Re: Input on indoor smoking needed

It is a private business, if someone can say "you can't come into my business" without reason given and you can be arrested for trespassing if you don't abide, then it's private. Just because one doesn't pre-screen it's clientele, doesn't negate the fact it's a private business.

No, everything is not controlled by the government, and one form of government is not a defense for extending that reach. It's also tangential to the scope of the current topic of discussion.

The debate is whether a private business can knowingly create an unsafe working environment for its employees when the solution (asking smokers to smoke outside the building) is more reasonable than employees finding new employment. Private businesses don't just get to do what they want. There are plenty of Federal, State, and Local laws that govern what private businesses can and cannot do. Many States view second-hand smoke to be a health hazard - mostly to the workers who have extended exposure to it.

The people who patronize these places aren't the major concern. It is more a nuisance than a hazard when you are only occasionally exposed to second-hand smoke.

[Burns11]

Re: Input on indoor smoking needed

They walked in the door knowing there was smoking going on, it's not like suddenly people started smoking after they had been on the job. Nobody is being forced to work there. Much like patronage, if a business can't sustain a workforce it would change it's policy or shut down and let another that might change policy to take it's place.

Blanket legislation isn't the answer.

[Graphik]

Re: Input on indoor smoking needed

If it's that cold outside, and you can't handle the cold, then don't smoke. Easy as that. Like I've stated, if you're a true smoker and really need the nicotine fix, you'll deal with the weather, whether its cold, rainy, snowy, or a tornado outside.

If you're going to whine that it's too cold outside to smoke, do you whine when it's too cold outside to go to work? I live in Chicago. My office has many users that smoke. Most of them females.. They can brave the cold weather to get their nicotine fix. If you can't, then you need to get your priorities straight.

And why would a building rent a separate room or office space just for smokers? When they can easily go outside, where it's free to smoke? You think it's an inconvenience for you to go outside to smoke when it's cold, well it's an even more inconvenience for us to be poisoned by second-hand smoke.



Not my convenience, but everyone else's. And nobody is asking you to patronized their business as well.. So if you really want to smoke indoors, stay at home and smoke. It's that simple.

I remember when the law was about to take into effect, many business around me complained how they would lose business because all the smokers will not frequent their establishments anymore simply because they can't smoke.

But guess what? Not only was that not the case, their business actually grew because of the smoking ban. They got more business simply because more people were willing to go to their restaurant/bar simply because there was no smoking. Best part about it was that they still got the regular smokers coming in and WILLING to go outside and smoke. So they got the best of both worlds.

Plain and simple, you guys make it seem that going outside to have a smoke is like making you walk on fire. It's not. It may be cold, it may be rainy or snowy, but there's other ways around it. Bundle up if your cold. Stay under a canopy if it's rainy.

Hell people at work use their smoke breaks every hour as a break from work. How many times can non-smokers leave their desk to just lounge around for 5-10 minutes every hour?

This is where you're losing me. Its not that easy. Plus you're willing to debate about seperate smoke rooms that would offer a solution that would benefit us both? You cant even come up with a logical solution besides, "tough it out or quit".

[jeremym480]

Re: Input on indoor smoking needed

Smoking is nasty. It smells horrible. It bad for your health. Honestly, I don't think I'll ever get why people enjoy it. If a state ever banned it completely I would try my best to move to that state. That's how much I hate smoking.

[Graphik]

Re: Input on indoor smoking needed

I am fine with this...some airports used to have this in the late 2000's I remember (St. Louis maybe? I forget). I thought it was awesome because otherwise it was such a hassle to smoke during a layover. It was only smokers in there and worked fine. IMO this is the best strategy, but until they can do this then bars just need more planned outdoor areas with heaters in Chicago....

One thing to consider about bars is that they have to offer a safe/healthy environment to the bartenders and wait staff, and smoking isn't healthy...that's the other battle they're fighting.

In any event, smoking is becoming the minority, so it's just going to get worse. I feel for all the smokers, it's annoying for sure, but highly doubt it could get better for them.

I definitely agree that its tough to be a smoker nowadays but like I said before, if they're gonna ban something. Just ban it all the way. I'm sure there are plenty of smokers like myself who want to quit but cant due to will power or whatever but the one thing that gets me is that smokers are targeted like "we" are the ones pulloting the enviorment when we dont import or manufacture ciggs. If some of you guys are so offended by cigg smoke than you all need to take that fight to congress or whatever. All I know is that I want to stop but whatever addictive properties are in ciggs wont allow me to so easily.

[shugknight]

Re: Input on indoor smoking needed

This is where you're losing me. Its not that easy. Plus you're willing to debate about seperate smoke rooms that would offer a solution that would benefit us both? You cant even come up with a logical solution besides, "tough it out or quit".

How is it not that easy? It's cold outside, you put on more layers of clothing. Just like a crack addict is willing to suck **** to get some crack, if you really need your nicotine fix, you do what you have to do.

And I'm stating that why would a building or a company be forced to spend extra resources to rent a room where smokers can just go in and smoke, when they can easily walk outside (where it's free) and smoke? It makes no sense.

It is a private business, if someone can say "you can't come into my business" without reason given and you can be arrested for trespassing if you don't abide, then it's private. Just because one doesn't pre-screen it's clientele, doesn't negate the fact it's a private business.

No, everything is not controlled by the government, and one form of government is not a defense for extending that reach. It's also tangential to the scope of the current topic of discussion.

It's a private business, but even private business has to abide by the law. You make it sound like this is segregation all over again where the government is stating, if you smoke, you can't enter this establishment.

[AUChase]

Re: Input on indoor smoking needed

I'm having to bite my tongue more than I want to with this to stay with in TOS.

It's a sensitive topic with valid arguments on both sides, but there are some high horse riding people around here, that's for got damn sure.

It's not like smokers are coming around saying, "Hey, let's give everyone who doesn't smoke cancer".

[Graphik]

Re: Input on indoor smoking needed

How is it not that easy? It's cold outside, you put on more layers of clothing. Just like a crack addict is willing to suck **** to get some crack, if you really need your nicotine fix, you do what you have to do.

And I'm stating that why would a building or a company be forced to spend extra resources to rent a room where smokers can just go in and smoke, when they can easily walk outside (where it's free) and smoke? It makes no sense.



It's a private business, but even private business has to abide by the law. You make it sound like this is segregation all over again where the government is stating, if you smoke, you can't enter this establishment.

I'm not referring to going outside to smoke. I meant that its not easy to quit or dont smoke as you said. I have no problem going out for a smoke since I spend 50% of my time outdoors away from my desk because of my work.

As for office buildings, etc...I understand its not neccesary to provide space just for smokers but it would be nice to accomodate us like you would like to be accomodated with smoke-free public places. It would be a win-win situation for the both of us. You can have your lungs and I can kill mine in the warmth of a room. Instead, I'm treated like vermin and forced to stand on a curb. Can you see why I dont think its fair? I want to relax, not freeze while puffing. Consideration people.

[Graphik]

Re: Input on indoor smoking needed

I'm having to bite my tongue more than I want to with this to stay with in TOS.

It's a sensitive topic with valid arguments on both sides, but there are some high horse riding people around here, that's for got damn sure.

It's not like smokers are coming around saying, "Hey, let's give everyone who doesn't smoke cancer".

I swear to baby jesus this is what it feels like. I like a good debate but some of the arguments here are way too biased. Its like trying to get a dog lover to love cats instead or something.

[snepp]

Re: Input on indoor smoking needed

I'm sorry, but expecting a business to go out of their way to cater to a habit of your choosing isn't very reasonable.

[shugknight]

Re: Input on indoor smoking needed

You guys are making it seem like we're throwing stones at you while you're smoking.

IS IT REALLY THAT HARD TO GO OUTSIDE AND SMOKE?

I'm not telling you to stop smoking. I'm saying, if you really need/want to smoke, you can easily go outside. We're not telling you to go inside a burning building. We're not saying to smoke in the middle of the highway. We're not saying to smoke next to a killer bee's nest.

All we're saying is go outside, in some fresh air, and smoke.

HOW HARD IS THAT TO UNDERSTAND?

[Graphik]

Re: Input on indoor smoking needed

You guys are making it seem like we're throwing stones at you while you're smoking.

IS IT REALLY THAT HARD TO GO OUTSIDE AND SMOKE?
I'm not telling you to stop smoking. I'm saying, if you really need/want to smoke, you can easily go outside. We're not telling you to go inside a burning building. We're not saying to smoke in the middle of the highway. We're not saying to smoke next to a killer bee's nest.

All we're saying is go outside, in some fresh air, and smoke.

HOW HARD IS THAT TO UNDERSTAND?

Yes if its 1 degree outside. Yes if its raining and yes if its an pending tornado.

Dressing for the elements is a given but nobody enjoys a smoke when your teeth are chattering and/or you're getting drenched tryna get shelter in the rain.

I know, I know, dont smoke then right?

[JODYE]

Re: Input on indoor smoking needed

I'm having to bite my tongue more than I want to with this to stay with in TOS.

It's a sensitive topic with valid arguments on both sides, but there are some high horse riding people around here, that's for got damn sure.

It's not like smokers are coming around saying, "Hey, let's give everyone who doesn't smoke cancer".

But they are saying we're inconveniencing them by making them go outside, instead of giving them a designated area in the same building that still pollutes the air with harmful toxins.

I'm not referring to going outside to smoke. I meant that its not easy to quit or dont smoke as you said. I have no problem going out for a smoke since I spend 50% of my time outdoors away from my desk because of my work.

As for office buildings, etc...I understand its not neccesary to provide space just for smokers but it would be nice to accomodate us like you would like to be accomodated with smoke-free public places. It would be a win-win situation for the both of us. You can have your lungs and I can kill mine in the warmth of a room. Instead, I'm treated like vermin and forced to stand on a curb. Can you see why I dont think its fair? I want to relax, not freeze while puffing. Consideration people.

And people that don't smoke, don't want to have to walk by smoking sections and smell areas in the building that smell like smoke, or produce a collection of it that contain harmful toxins.

Unfortunately, no matter how unfair you think it is, smokers really don't have a say, nor an argument.

The act that you are performing, one, is not necessary for you to survive, two is a voluntary action, and three harms others.

Even smoking sections still spread smoke to other parts of the building. My grandparents live in an apartment complex, and smoke comes through their ventilation system, just like it would anywhere else.

Everyone technically has the right to do what they want, but when your performing a voluntary act and putting others in harm's way and infringing on others rights, for your own personal satisfaction, you really have no say, or aren't going to have much of a case.

So yes, either tough it out in the cold weather, or quit. That simple.

No high horse, just the facts. One reason so many of these bans are going into effect, is because really there is no way to form a case supporting it anymore other than, well it's our right to be in a certain location too.

[Fresh Tendrils]

Re: Input on indoor smoking needed

Talk about people feeling entitled.

Restricting where you can perform a health-hazardous action (yet still legal) in a public place is not a ban. You can still do it in designated areas and the ability to smoke is still a right of choice for the individual. The individual loses that right of choice when other people are involved and their rights are infringed upon. I don't see why this debate really needs to go past that point.

I can understand why a smoker's lounge would appeal to smokers, but I wouldn't be for it. Based on my experiences that would promote less work, more breaks, and a nasty *** room.

[shugknight]

Re: Input on indoor smoking needed

Yes if its 1 degree outside. Yes if its raining and yes if its an pending tornado.

Dressing for the elements is a given but nobody enjoys a smoke when your teeth are chattering and/or you're getting drenched tryna get shelter in the rain.

I know, I know, dont smoke then right?

LOL.. you are ridiculous sir.

I know women who are tougher than you and if they really need the nicotine will go outside in a bikini when it's -30 degrees outside to smoke.

You keep blaming cigarette manufacturers for putting addictive elements in cigarettes that prevent you from quitting, but I think you need to look in the mirror first before putting the blame on others.