The 2017-2018 EPL Discussion Thread

[ImTellinTim]

The 2017-2018 EPL Discussion Thread

VAR is very good IMO

Oh come on Bobby


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[dubcity]

Re: The 2017-2018 EPL Discussion Thread

For christ sake, why is the main ref walking over to a TV on the sideline for reviews? Just have a TMO.

[ImTellinTim]

Re: The 2017-2018 EPL Discussion Thread

For christ sake, why is the main ref walking over to a TV on the sideline for reviews? Just have a TMO.

Seriously. If Andre Mariner stops play just let him make the call too.

[dubcity]

Re: The 2017-2018 EPL Discussion Thread

They definitely need to streamline the VAR, for sure. Staring at the ref for a full minute after every goal or suspect incident is going to get old.

[Brahvocado]

Re: The 2017-2018 EPL Discussion Thread

Ugly game at Newport from the pitch to the play but at least pulled out a draw.

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Once again reserving my trash talking until tomorrow, as I’m not entirely sure Newcastle are much better than a League 2 side at the moment.

[stlducks]

Re: The 2017-2018 EPL Discussion Thread

Only thing uglier than that second goal is Bats hair.

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[Krebstar]

Re: The 2017-2018 EPL Discussion Thread

Eh, just a yellow. These foreigners gotta realize there's a right and wrong way to play football—especially in the FA Cup.

I remember when it was in vogue to talk about how Arsenal don't like it if you rough 'em up a bit. Get stuck in and they'll fall apart. Go hard at them as you can't beat them at their game! It's okay, City, I empathize with all of that bull****.

[jb12780]

The 2017-2018 EPL Discussion Thread

Yikes. That reminds of that **** Shawcross and what could have been in Eduardo.


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[stlducks]

Re: The 2017-2018 EPL Discussion Thread

Eh, just a yellow. These foreigners gotta realize there's a right and wrong way to play football—especially in the FA Cup.

I remember when it was in vogue to talk about how Arsenal don't like it if you rough 'em up a bit. Get stuck in and they'll fall apart. Go hard at them as you can't beat them at their game! It's okay, City, I empathize with all of that bull****.

There is a big difference between playing physical/rough and trying to break a leg. Arsenal were soft, you could push they're defenders around, dominate the midfielders and do it without hurting players.

This tackle on City is not him trying to be rough, it's him being an idiot and trying to break Sanes leg. 10 game suspension is a minimum for something like this.

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[Krebstar]

Re: The 2017-2018 EPL Discussion Thread

There is a big difference between playing physical/rough and trying to break a leg.

Oh boy, this inability to admit fault in the way teams played against a more technically gifted team in the past (Arsenal) really does bring back memories.

Nobody was talking about "pushing Arsenal's defenders" around as in using your hands and your body. They were talking about going in hard on tackles to disrupt the flow of the game and to stop technical players from playing their game. Even if you are talking about "playing physically" with your body and not by breaking legs, it's an absurdly fine line between the two.

Teams have the right to try and break up the flow of the game and to stop a technical side from playing their game, but that doesn't mean hard fouls and roughing players up. It means packing your defense tight, pulling players back and committing professional fouls when needed. That's not what often happened against Arsenal, and that's not what's happening against City. Everyone confuses dangerous play with "playing physically" and it's nonsense.

Arsenal were soft, you could push they're defenders around, dominate the midfielders and do it without hurting players.

No, they were not soft. They were smaller, more technically gifted players who were attempted to play the game in a manner that clashed with the way the old gaurd wanted the game to be played. They stayed down because hard tackles were flying in. They stayed down because they were being deliberately kicked in an effort to stop them from attempting to dribble the damn ball.

Let me make something perfectly clear—do I think managers told and are now telling their players to go out and put in dangerous, potentially leg breaking tackles on Arseanal/Man City players? No, I do not.

But what is happening is the vague nonsense of "rough 'em up" and play physical and get stuck in and all that nonsense that leads to dangerous, potentially leg breaking tackles.

Arsenal were soft my ***. They were a team who possessed a very different set of skills than many other teams, who lacked in physicality, therefore they were targeted for being soft and weak when in reality they were helping usher in a more continental and attractive style of play.

One last point to clarify—physical play does exist. Strong players can push others off the ball and hold onto the ball under fair challenges. That is not what I'm talking about, and to deny the reality of what happened to Arsenal for several years (give 'em a kick because they don't like it) is ****ing nonsense.

[stlducks]

Re: The 2017-2018 EPL Discussion Thread

Oh boy, this inability to admit fault in the way teams played against a more technically gifted team in the past (Arsenal) really does bring back memories.

Nobody was talking about "pushing Arsenal's defenders" around as in using your hands and your body. They were talking about going in hard on tackles to disrupt the flow of the game and to stop technical players from playing their game. Even if you are talking about "playing physically" with your body and not by breaking legs, it's an absurdly fine line between the two.

Teams have the right to try and break up the flow of the game and to stop a technical side from playing their game, but that doesn't mean hard fouls and roughing players up. It means packing your defense tight, pulling players back and committing professional fouls when needed. That's not what often happened against Arsenal, and that's not what's happening against City. Everyone confuses dangerous play with "playing physically" and it's nonsense.



No, they were not soft. They were smaller, more technically gifted players who were attempted to play the game in a manner that clashed with the way the old gaurd wanted the game to be played. They stayed down because hard tackles were flying in. They stayed down because they were being deliberately kicked in an effort to stop them from attempting to dribble the damn ball.

Let me make something perfectly clear—do I think managers told and are now telling their players to go out and put in dangerous, potentially leg breaking tackles on Arseanal/Man City players? No, I do not.

But what is happening is the vague nonsense of "rough 'em up" and play physical and get stuck in and all that nonsense that leads to dangerous, potentially leg breaking tackles.

Arsenal were soft my ***. They were a team who possessed a very different set of skills than many other teams, who lacked in physicality, therefore they were targeted for being soft and weak when in reality they were helping usher in a more continental and attractive style of play.

One last point to clarify—physical play does exist. Strong players can push others off the ball and hold onto the ball under fair challenges. That is not what I'm talking about, and to deny the reality of what happened to Arsenal for several years (give 'em a kick because they don't like it) is ****ing nonsense.

I had a long response typed out but then just deleted it. I'm not going to argue with an Arsenal fan about a debate going back a decade. Arsenal fans say they were technically gifted, fans of other clubs say they were soft. No way of convincing the other to change their mind.

I don't think people treat City as "soft." If you noticed, the bad fouls happen late in games when City are winning big and frustrating their opponents. Teams don't go in with the game plan to be rough (like they did with Arsenal) City frustrate them into doing stupid things and hot head players losing their temper.

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[Krebstar]

Re: The 2017-2018 EPL Discussion Thread

I had a long response typed out but then just deleted it. I'm not going to argue with an Arsenal fan about a debate going back a decade. Arsenal fans say they were technically gifted, fans of other clubs say they were soft. No way of convincing the other to change their mind.

I would love to hear an argument about how our past teams were not technically gifted. Please, type it all out again—I beg you.

You do realize that me saying we were technically gifted does not mean I'm saying we were amazing or deserved to win, right? The issue is that we only collected players who were technically gifted and who lacked physicality and strength. It was a poorly assembled team in terms of balance and one that lacked the ability to change their style based on the opposition.

However, to claim they were "soft", which is a vague term that is impossible to quantify and not technically gifted which is something you can quantify by watching them play is just...well, it seems that it's a bias getting in the way of actual judgment.

[stlducks]

Re: The 2017-2018 EPL Discussion Thread

I would love to hear an argument about how our past teams were not technically gifted. Please, type it all out again—I beg you.

You do realize that me saying we were technically gifted does not mean I'm saying we were amazing or deserved to win, right? The issue is that we only collected players who were technically gifted and who lacked physicality and strength. It was a poorly assembled team in terms of balance and one that lacked the ability to change their style based on the opposition.

However, to claim they were "soft", which is a vague term that is impossible to quantify and not technically gifted which is something you can quantify by watching them play is just...well, it seems that it's a bias getting in the way of actual judgment.

I'm not going to type it all out again because as I said, I'm not going to argue with an Arsenal fan over something from a decade ago when no change will come from it. It amazes me how Arsenal fans can find a way to spin anything to discuss their club. We are talking about City getting tackled and you keep trying to bring up past Arsenal clubs.

You are the only Arsenal fan (and sadly two of my best friends are Arsenal fans) that I have ever heard try saying Arsenal are not soft. Remember Xhaka was supposed to bring the "tough, rough" attitude to midfield that Arsenal lacked? That's coming from Ian Wright himself who has gone on record saying Arsenal were soft.

I'm done talking about the club I despise the most but I'll gladly talk about the main topic here, City and how clubs treat them, if you wish. You keep ignoring my points on that topic about how I don't think they are treated as soft but instead frustrate teams into hard fouls.



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[Krebstar]

Re: The 2017-2018 EPL Discussion Thread

I'm not going to type it all out again because as I said, I'm not going to argue with an Arsenal fan over something from a decade ago when no change will come from it.

If I were not an Arsenal supporter would you take more time to explain your argument and tell me what exactly the word soft refers to? Does it mean not enjoying being kicked repeatedly? If that's the case, the game is being overrun by soft players.

I'm done talking about the club I despise the most but I'll gladly talk about the main topic here, City and how clubs treat them, if you wish. You keep ignoring my points on that topic about how I don't think they are treated as soft but instead frustrate teams into hard fouls.

I would say that hard fouls on any team who play a possession/technical style come from frustration and an inability to match that style. Teams went in hard on Arsenal (sorry, I know you can't stand the mention of them at all) and City because of the way they're playing. They frustrate easily because they're (gasp) technically gifted.

I haven't ignored your points, I've pointed out why I do not believe Arsenal were "soft" or whatever that means, and the similarities between how they were played against and how City are now played against.

You seem to take offense that I can't help but bring Arsenal into the discussion. Allow me to ease your mind a bit. I'm doing so because as I originally stated, I can empathize with seeing your players mowed down game after game and it seeing it largely ignored in the media or written off as being slower than the other players, mistiming your tackles, not meaning any harm, etc. Lastly, this City side are far, far better than any of the Arsenal sides that were treated similarly. I'm not bringing Arsenal into the discussion as a matter of bringing them into the light and forcing anyone to talk about them. I'm using them as a reference, and as perspective, because I follow them—that's it. I'm sorry if your bias against the club prevents you from either forming or reading a response.

[KG]

Re: The 2017-2018 EPL Discussion Thread

I had a long response typed out but then just deleted it. I'm not going to argue with an Arsenal fan about a debate going back a decade. Arsenal fans say they were technically gifted, fans of other clubs say they were soft. No way of convincing the other to change their mind.

I don't think people treat City as "soft." If you noticed, the bad fouls happen late in games when City are winning big and frustrating their opponents. Teams don't go in with the game plan to be rough (like they did with Arsenal) City frustrate them into doing stupid things and hot head players losing their temper.

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The two terms, soft and technically gifted, aren't mutually exclusive. In this case I think those Arsenal teams were both soft and technically gifted. I don't think anyone went out with the intention of hurting them but you can still play physical and try to mentally intimidate your opponent. I like Sane as a player and wouldn't wish any harm to a player but City has 2 guys in Otamendi and Aguero that are prone to lashing out and putting in dangerous tackles. Arsenal doesn't really have a ton of guys who are physically imposing. Kolasanic and maybe Xhaka although Xhaka is more reckless than anything. Perhaps I'm bias though as Chelsea was kind of transformed into a physical club during Mou's first stint.

Regardless, the ref got it wrong (as usual). That's a straight red IMO.