CPU vs. CPU in offline CFM? (Madden NFL 16)

[SECElit3]

Quote: Originally Posted by Big FN Deal

Not directed at you JP but I'm reading this stuff thinking "is this real life?", meaning are people actually needing to lobby for a standard element? CPU V CPU is not a "feature", it's just standard in applicable video games, IT"S IN MADDEN Play NOW, just not directly accessible in CFM. CPU V CPU, True coach mode, team select(freely moving controllers between either two teams), 32 team control, player lock, etc, aren't things any sports game should tout as features or need to put on some arbitrary priority list, they should just be inherent in the games design. Madden seems to be handled more and more like some reality show with basic things needing to be voted on and off, it's nonsense, imo. Then people like yourself come back from Tiburon repeating this stuff as if it makes sense, meaning I get this is what whoever is saying at Tiburon but when gamers like you, TSS, EAGCers etc, start with this "but is that something the majority wants?", it's makes you all sound just as out of touch as them. I don't even utilize it but nobody needs to tell me why they want CPU v CPU in CFM, it should be common sense to anyone that actual plays Madden, past Madden's and/or other sports games. It's akin to them suddenly removing the capability to change uniforms in online H2H, people would go ballistic, even though changing uniform combos isn't some big deal that everyone uses and I bet you they wouldn't ask why or say "lobby to add that to the list of priority features". My bad for going into all that, all I'm saying JP is the simple answer is that it's personal preference and a standard capability.

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[PatsSB2015]

Quote: Originally Posted by Big FN Deal

Not directed at you JP but I'm reading this stuff thinking "is this real life?", meaning are people actually needing to lobby for a standard element? CPU V CPU is not a "feature", it's just standard in applicable video games, IT"S IN MADDEN Play NOW, just not directly accessible in CFM. CPU V CPU, True coach mode, team select(freely moving controllers between either two teams), 32 team control, player lock, etc, aren't things any sports game should tout as features or need to put on some arbitrary priority list, they should just be inherent in the games design. Madden seems to be handled more and more like some reality show with basic things needing to be voted on and off, it's nonsense, imo. Then people like yourself come back from Tiburon repeating this stuff as if it makes sense, meaning I get this is what whoever is saying at Tiburon but when gamers like you, TSS, EAGCers etc, start with this "but is that something the majority wants?", it's makes you all sound just as out of touch as them. I don't even utilize it but nobody needs to tell me why they want CPU v CPU in CFM, it should be common sense to anyone that actual plays Madden, past Madden's and/or other sports games. It's akin to them suddenly removing the capability to change uniforms in online H2H, people would go ballistic, even though changing uniform combos isn't some big deal that everyone uses and I bet you they wouldn't ask why or say "lobby to add that to the list of priority features". My bad for going into all that, all I'm saying JP is the simple answer is that it's personal preference and a standard capability.

THIS! THIS! THIS! All day long. People have different reasons as to why they want this in and it isn't a difficult fix. Any excuses given have been proven false.

I don't personally go into all the scouting. I get that others do and that's an extension of the experience that they enjoy and they have my support in how they enjoy CPU vs. CPU in CFM.

In my humble opinion, it almost feels like they aren't putting it in almost out of spite. Perhaps I am wrong. It happens, but the reasons and excuses I've heard over the years were either weak or factually incorrect.

I'm just frustrated because I used to love this franchise. These games should advance, not go backwards. Less is not more in this case.

[Bolieve]

I don't need a complex reason for wanting CPU vs CPU in Connected Careers. I want it because it was a pervious feature in the past that I enjoyed. Period.

[EricFreakingBerry]

Here's another way of thinking about it....

FPS shooters, fighting games, platform games, - these all have limited things you can do with a game generally and the people who turn them on all play in roughly the same way. The customization is fairly narrow, the types of gamers all expect "similar" types of satisfaction when it comes to these genres.

Sports/RPG's - these games have WAY different consumers. In an RPG I can choose to play as a certain race and a certain class, and use skills a certain way for the entire game. Many give me the option to make things easier or harder, and allow me to customize my character and experience with at least a glossy attempt at depth. They may have side missions that I do more than I do the main quest.

This becomes the same with sports, for me. I don't want EA to ever open their mouths and tell me "well, the majority doesn't want it" so it's not in. There IS no majority, because there are a million combinations of play style in sports games. There are young kids who play it, there are 20 year olds who play it, there are mid 30 year olds like myself that have been here since the Sega Genesis playing this stuff because we LOVE FOOTBALL. But we all like different teams, players, aspects of the sport, aspects of playing sports games. It should not ever matter what a "majority" wants in a sports title because sports games are some of the most divisive, opinionated, and most difficult types of games to narrow down into one mold.

NBA2K has given us sandbox MyLeague where I can tweak trade logic and various parameters. When I load up the league I can edit anyone in the NBA. Every offseason I can edit every single draft class. This keeps me playing, because it's balanced and FUN. Madden does NOT give me a sandbox. They give me a 20 oz. bottle of sand and tell me to choke it down every year. It's basically a "screw you" when it comes to how I want to play. So to restrict gamers because a "bunch of people play MUT/Online and don't care about CPU vs. CPU or the host of other feature failures EA has made these past few years" is a freaking travesty.

[LorenzoDC]

Quote: Originally Posted by roadman

The people you are referring to are Tibouron people, we always hear about the telemetry #'s they use to determine what stays and what is cut out. JP, maybe if the sliders worked great out of the box without doing an inordinate amount of work for several months, maybe one wouldn't need cpu vs cpu. I would tell the developers that the telemetry you are discovering because of the current state of sliders not giving a realistic NFL experience, CPU vs CPU would be highly recommended.

Telemetry data is fine but of somewhat limited use. It measures what and how people use what you have already implemented. But if you implement good ideas badly, people will avoid those things. Or, if you create everything with the ADHD gamer in mind, and find that the ADHD game items are the most popular, then you are creating a self-fulfilling, self-defining feedback loop.

You have to supplement your analysis to include, not just the quantitative data gathering available through telemetry, but also qualitative data gathering from motivated customers like this community. You also have to look at what other sports games are doing well, not because you have to be a "me too" copycat game, but because you recognize your own team, like any team, can get into a groupthink bubble and good ideas can be adapted from elsewhere.

So when we hear all this EA feedback of "yeah but the telemetry," that just tells me the bean counters and marketing department types are calling all the design shots when they don't understand design.

If there's anyone at EA/Tiburon on the design side with sense and vision, I expect this video captures what their lives are like:

[roadman]

Quote: Originally Posted by LorenzoDC

Telemetry data is fine but of somewhat limited use. It measures what and how people use what you have already implemented. But if you implement good ideas badly, people will avoid those things. Or, if you create everything with the ADHD gamer in mind, and find that the ADHD game items are the most popular, then you are creating a self-fulfilling, self-defining feedback loop. You have to supplement your analysis to include, not just the quantitative data gathering available through telemetry, but also qualitative data gathering from motivated customers like this community. You also have to look at what other sports games are doing well, not because you have to be a "me too" copycat game, but because you recognize your own team, like any team, can get into a groupthink bubble and good ideas can be adapted from elsewhere. So when we hear all this EA feedback of "yeah but the telemetry," that just tells me the bean counters and marketing department types are calling all the design shots when they don't understand design. If there's anyone at EA/Tiburon on the design side with sense and vision, I expect this video captures what their lives are like:

I don't disagree, but I really feel that EA feels the GCers are representing the community. There is a GCer from every walk of life, CFM, tourney, and gameplay.

OS has provided insight to the developers over the past decade or more and has little to show for it. Ian and company ran a copy of the other game in the office continuously.

It's quite clear how they go about making the game.

[Playmakers]

EA's broken gameplay doing the single player experience over the past few years is what drove me to enjoying CPU vs CPU playing experience much better.

It's hard for me to pick up Madden or NCAA Football and play vs the CPU now days because out of the box gameplay is horrible and you generally don't know what the sliders do anymore to customize the game yourself.

I used to live and die in the slider forums customizing gameplay for single player experience but it seems like every since Madden 12/NCAA 11 EA has released games with broken sliders limiting the IMPACT of their overall effect on Human vs CPU gameplay.

So now I refuse to spend months trying to fix something that is completely broken (Sliders) at the end of the day....

This is where CPU vs CPU gameplay shines much better than the single player experience IMO.

Other than slight tweaks to gameplay sliders you actually start to see players, teams and their ratings play out much better on the field in this mode.

I mean seriously they spend all year editing ratings in Madden throughout the season and then they rate the incoming rookies after the draft and all that time spent on ratings is worthless because if you can't get it to show up on the field doing the actual gameplay then what purpose does it serve?

At the end of the day if your a die hard SIM fan I believe the best SIM experience out of EA Football games is rendered in CPU vs CPU mode and this is coming from a guy who has played Madden since 1990 and NCAA Football since 1995 in the single player mode only.

[LorenzoDC]

Quote: Originally Posted by roadman

I don't disagree, but I really feel that EA feels the GCers are representing the community. There is a GCer from every walk of life, CFM, tourney, and gameplay. OS has provided insight to the developers over the past decade or more and has little to show for it. Ian and company ran a copy of the other game in the office continuously. It's quite clear how they go about making the game.

Yeah, the GCers are out there, but the sense I get is they've become a domesticated veal pen, for the most part. In return for access and the possibility of having their input maybe kinda sorta piped up the chain, their real function is to be tongue tied by NDA's and soft or mute on public criticism in order to sustain inside access.

I don't take the GCers seriously. The only GCer's whose input seems to matter marginally are the online H2H guys.