How rigged can this game be?

[roadman]

As I said, on all Madden, on the higher difficulty levels of the other games, yeah, those levels the AI is challenging and will probably do anything to win.

Since I've been playing on All-pro since the early 90's vs the CPU, nah, I just don't get that wonkiness you get.

I'm not saying your are incorrect, I'm just saying I don't experience the same thing you do.

To each their own, agree to disagree on the lower difficulty levels.

We don't need to go any further on this.

We've both made our points on this, time to move on.

[PGaither84]

Quote: Originally Posted by kehlis

Interesting stuff. What year did you develop the game for?

I went to Community Day for Madden 11 (2010), which was actually a 3 day and night process. I got as involved in the process as possible and remained in contact after. While I wasn't officially on the GameChangers team, I continued to exchange emails with the team who codes the game. Over time, they have moved on from Madden.

[PGaither84]

Quote: Originally Posted by Franchise408

And that's kind of the point. On the lower difficulty levels (I.E. anything under All-Madden), I can literally set the controller down, go to the bathroom while the game is playing, and still come back ahead. On the higher difficulty level (I.E. All-Madden), the game cheats to win.

I will try to explain this AGAIN for people who fail to realize what is going on:

Turn on the game, go to the settings and put the difficulty at Rookie. Then go to the sliders section for the user and the computer. Then do that again for Pro, All-Pro and All-Madden. I still only have Madden 25 for the XBox 360, but I will share with you what happens for me:

On Rookie, every user skill is set to 100.
On Pro, every user skill is set to 75.
On All-Pro, every user skill is set to 50.
On All-Madden, every user skill is set to 25... except catching which remains at 50.

The Computer settings, in Madden 25, are always a default 50 across the board.

That means the internal numbers are in your favor on Rookie and Pro difficulties. They are supposed to be "fair and balanced" on All-Pro, and in the computer's favor on All-Madden.

If you put the game on default All-Madden mode and then complain that things are unbalanced against you... they ARE. That isn't some hidden EA conspiracy against you. You set the game to be like that when you put it on All-Madden. You are doing it to yourself. This is why there are (were?) custom slider sub forums here at OS... to get a difficult but fair & fun game play experience.

I have to ask: Why are you playing against the computer? That is a real question. Are you playing an offline franchise/CCM? Are you playing pick up games for fun in your free time? Are you trying to practice something? Why?

I don't have XBL Gold anymore. All my friends went to the PS4 so I don't have anyone to play with any more. I am not intersted in playing against random people online. I did years ago. Not anoymore. I just play "coach mode" with custom sliders for fun now.

I have enough knowledge about football and about Madden to roast the computer as a user, so instead I just try to recreate a sim-style experience and let the player ratings (and internal die rolls) take their coarse to determine the outcome of plays. I try to call a realistic game from the sideline and make pre-snap adjustments. Winning and losing doesn't bother me. That's what happens. With well balanced slider difficulty settings, I don't ever see or feel this comeback AI people cry about

[RACZILLA]

Quote: Originally Posted by PGaither84

I will try to explain this AGAIN for people who fail to realize what is going on: Turn on the game, go to the settings and put the difficulty at Rookie. Then go to the sliders section for the user and the computer. Then do that again for Pro, All-Pro and All-Madden. I still only have Madden 25 for the XBox 360, but I will share with you what happens for me: On Rookie, every user skill is set to 100. On Pro, every user skill is set to 75. On All-Pro, every user skill is set to 50. On All-Madden, every user skill is set to 25... except catching which remains at 50. The Computer settings, in Madden 25, are always a default 50 across the board. That means the internal numbers are in your favor on Rookie and Pro difficulties. They are supposed to be "fair and balanced" on All-Pro, and in the computer's favor on All-Madden.

This has always been my understanding of it as well. You're handicapping yourself when you play All-Madden.

It's interesting though that it seems to be something that's not super apparent to players.

[mestevo]

tl;dr: not rigged.

[Franchise408]

Quote: Originally Posted by PGaither84

I will try to explain this AGAIN for people who fail to realize what is going on: Turn on the game, go to the settings and put the difficulty at Rookie. Then go to the sliders section for the user and the computer. Then do that again for Pro, All-Pro and All-Madden. I still only have Madden 25 for the XBox 360, but I will share with you what happens for me: On Rookie, every user skill is set to 100. On Pro, every user skill is set to 75. On All-Pro, every user skill is set to 50. On All-Madden, every user skill is set to 25... except catching which remains at 50. The Computer settings, in Madden 25, are always a default 50 across the board. That means the internal numbers are in your favor on Rookie and Pro difficulties. They are supposed to be "fair and balanced" on All-Pro, and in the computer's favor on All-Madden. If you put the game on default All-Madden mode and then complain that things are unbalanced against you... they ARE. That isn't some hidden EA conspiracy against you. You set the game to be like that when you put it on All-Madden. You are doing it to yourself. This is why there are (were?) custom slider sub forums here at OS... to get a difficult but fair & fun game play experience. I have to ask: Why are you playing against the computer? That is a real question. Are you playing an offline franchise/CCM? Are you playing pick up games for fun in your free time? Are you trying to practice something? Why? I don't have XBL Gold anymore. All my friends went to the PS4 so I don't have anyone to play with any more. I am not intersted in playing against random people online. I did years ago. Not anoymore. I just play "coach mode" with custom sliders for fun now. I have enough knowledge about football and about Madden to roast the computer as a user, so instead I just try to recreate a sim-style experience and let the player ratings (and internal die rolls) take their coarse to determine the outcome of plays. I try to call a realistic game from the sideline and make pre-snap adjustments. Winning and losing doesn't bother me. That's what happens. With well balanced slider difficulty settings, I don't ever see or feel this comeback AI people cry about

However, here lies the problem: Anything under All-Madden presents exactly 0 challenge, and playing on All-Madden is cheating to replicate a challenge.

Hence my comment about "lack of developer talent"

The talent isn't there to create an AI that presents an acceptable challenge to the user without cheating.

I can play many various sports titles and find a balance without having to spend hours upon hours of slider testing (though some slider adjustments may be necessary). And yes, those games will have some wonky stuff happening. But by and large, it is an acceptable challenge that doesn't resort to cheating.

Madden does no such thing. Madden is either no challenge, or cheating.

I don't play against the CPU anymore for that exact reason, and as a matter of fact, if it weren't for online CFM, and belonging to a 32 man online league, I wouldn't be buying Madden anymore, as outside of league play, it's an absolute waste of time. But at least with a league of like minded players, I can actually get a lot of use out of Madden.

But even then, it still has plenty of problems.

Is there not some sort of bad AI going when a touchdown is not counted for the team that scored it, and it is unable to be challenged, as such costing the scoring team the game (as it was a game winning touchdown scored at the end of regulation)?

Is there not some sort of bad AI going on that, without adjustments that would pull them out of their assignments, defenders do not play the zones they are supposed to play, allowing offensive players that should be covered to run wide open routes and score game winning touchdowns?

Is there not some sort of bad AI going when a ball can be thrown into 5 man coverage, and not one single defender even makes an attempt to defend the pass, and as such, the WR comes down with an uncontested grab in 5 man coverage?

This is just the tip of the iceberg of some of the rigging I have seen in HUMAN VERSUS HUMAN competition in games that I've played, negatively affecting either myself or my opponent because of horrendous AI. I have experienced it in my own games, I have witnessed it in my league's broadcast twitch games, these types of occurrences are far too frequent to come from a competent group of developers. At worst, there's internal rigging of outcomes happening even in head to head games, at best, it's just absolutely atrocious game design that allows outcomes to be determined on a regular basis by glitches and bugs.

Actually now that I put it like that, I'm actually not sure which one IS worse...

[kehlis]

Quote: Originally Posted by Franchise408

I don't play against the CPU anymore for that exact reason, and as a matter of fact, if it weren't for online CFM, and belonging to a 32 man online league, I wouldn't be buying Madden anymore, as outside of league play, it's an absolute waste of time.

If you don't play against the CPU and presumably by your posts haven't for several years, how can you comment on how it is to play against the cpu?

Also, please drop comments like this:

Quote:

Hence my comment about "lack of developer talent"

[underdog13]

Don't play on All Madden?