Vision Cone Alternative (How to make QB AWR matter)

[SageInfinite]

Quote: Originally Posted by CM Hooe

I just think, from a strictly game design standpoint, there are better ways to make AWR it than sacrificing user control.

What would you suggest?

[NDAlum]

Quote: Originally Posted by CM Hooe

Ratings vs User Control is a debate that's been going on since time immemorial, so I get it. And I appreciate the intent to make AWR matter for user-controlled players, as I agree that that's needed. I just think, from a strictly game design standpoint, there are better ways to make AWR it than sacrificing user control.

I'm not proposing my idea is the only way. If you have something you think would be better then please share. I know you have the technical background in this area.

Quote: Originally Posted by CM Hooe

Let's run this through an example to make sure I understand: Let's say I've got four verticals dialed up against a Cover 0 blitz. I keep a RB in to protect via a pre-play hot route, so I have just enough time to get the throw off if one of my receivers beats his defender quickly and I find him. For sake of example, my quarterback's primary read is the slot receiver on this play, let's say Cole Beasley, and I see with my eyes that Beasley is covered. I also see that my flanker Julio Jones has torched his defender and is wide open. I need to throw the ball immediately, otherwise my protection is going to break down and I'm going to get sacked. I press Square once to throw to Jones, even though my quarterback is not "looking at him". I see a wide open guy, I want to throw him the ball. Does the game penalize my accuracy if I throw it to Jones in this case, despite my having made the correct read as a user on this play, because I did not first make my quarterback "look at" Jones in-game?

Yes

This scenario attracts me to the idea that much more.

A guy like Aaron Rodgers would be able to recover from pressure better and deliver a more accurate ball. A guy like Kaepernick would suffer a big decrease in accuracy because he can't make the read. It's still user input but with a big factor of ratings.

I see far too many low AWR/OVR good THP/THA QB's have success, particularly in online leagues.

[DeuceDouglas]

This would be great and would pair well I think with some kind of release rating as well where the higher the rating, the quicker the release a QB. Anything to help differentiate QB's. It sucks that it even has to be a debate of user control versus a rating like AWR that should be a huge factor in how good a QB is meaning anything when there indisputably should be options there for both.

[Allball76]

[quote=SageInfinite;2048307069]What would you suggest?[/QUOTE

Maybe when a pass receiver icons start to flash and tells you basicly that be a great option to throw too , A hi % pass . Some times we think someone is open but there covered plus the icon would flash when it was the perfect time too pass . Plus if you have low awerness you can't audible routes . I also like the old Payton manning weapon every once in a while he new the defence the other team ran . (Same should happen with lb Luke kuechly ! He reads the offence well ! There a lot we could have in the game ! And or at min hi awerness should show and tell you the defence the other team is in and a recommended play to run against it !

[CM Hooe]

Quote: Originally Posted by SageInfinite

What would you suggest?

I'd start with pre-play adjustments. I wouldn't restrict the user's ability to perform them - if you call a hot route, it would always succeed immediately - but I'd restrict how quickly a user can call successive adjustments or audibles.

For example, Tom Brady would basically be able to call hot routes almost freely, with a quick animation by the QB signaling each hot route, as is the current Madden 16 user experience when audibling with any quarterback. Blaine Gabbert, however, would consistently play a longer animation to complete an audible or hot route. Again, the audible would still succeed immediately - the WR would never not hear the audible like in NCAA - but this would limit the number of adjustments lower-AWR QBs can make pre-play and also increase the risk of user-triggered delay of game penalties. It'd place value in acquiring a veteran signal caller in franchise to hold down the fort while the low-AWR rookie gains XP on the sideline until his AWR is progressed high enough, as opposed to playing the rookie immediately and suffering through his lack of ability to make adjustments at the line of scrimmage. Risk-reward.

I'd also prototype some intangible buffs for high-AWR QBs. For example, maybe high-AWR QBs automatically recognize a clean pocket in front of them and will automatically step up into it, increasing the chances of an accurate pass. High AWR QBs could also have better chances of triggering beneficial contextual actions without user input; for example, maybe Russell Wilson automatically extends his arm to put the ball in front of the first down marker when he is scrambling towards the line to gain while going out of bounds, so you get 1st and 10 instead of 3rd and 1.

Things like this make AWR meaningful without getting in the way of the user's ability to perform the actions he wishes to perform in the game. With the exception of the auto-step-up idea, which I admit I'd want to be careful with as that could impact control, the user will never feel like control of the game is being ripped away from him while also being able to see the difference between high-AWR and low-AWR players.

[Allball76]

Quote: Originally Posted by CM Hooe

I'd start with pre-play adjustments. I wouldn't restrict the user's ability to perform them - if you call a hot route, it would always succeed immediately - but I'd restrict how quickly a user can call successive adjustments or audibles. For example, Tom Brady would basically be able to call hot routes almost freely, with a quick animation by the QB signaling each hot route, as is the current Madden 16 user experience when audibling with any quarterback. Blaine Gabbert, however, would consistently play a longer animation to complete an audible or hot route. Again, the audible would still succeed immediately - the WR would never not hear the audible like in NCAA - but this would limit the number of adjustments lower-AWR QBs can make pre-play and also increase the risk of user-triggered delay of game penalties. It'd place value in acquiring a veteran signal caller in franchise to hold down the fort while the low-AWR rookie gains XP on the sideline until his AWR is progressed high enough, as opposed to playing the rookie immediately and suffering through his lack of ability to make adjustments at the line of scrimmage. Risk-reward. I'd also prototype some intangible buffs for high-AWR QBs. For example, maybe high-AWR QBs automatically recognize a clean pocket in front of them and will automatically step up into it, increasing the chances of an accurate pass. High AWR QBs could also have better chances of triggering beneficial contextual actions without user input; for example, maybe Russell Wilson automatically extends his arm to put the ball in front of the first down marker when he is scrambling towards the line to gain while going out of bounds, so you get 1st and 10 instead of 3rd and 1. Things like this make AWR meaningful without getting in the way of the user's ability to perform the actions he wishes to perform in the game. With the exception of the auto-step-up idea, which I admit I'd want to be careful with as that could impact control, the user will never feel like control of the game is being ripped away from him while also being able to see the difference between high-AWR and low-AWR players.

We have similar thoughts on this I really agree with the audible part . But remember manning , Brady and bress are great at reading defenses that's all Manning had left at the end he couldn't make a pass but what he had over Brock was he could read and know the defence !

[SageInfinite]

Quote: Originally Posted by CM Hooe

I'd start with pre-play adjustments. I wouldn't restrict the user's ability to perform them - if you call a hot route, it would always succeed immediately - but I'd restrict how quickly a user can call successive adjustments or audibles. For example, Tom Brady would basically be able to call hot routes almost freely, with a quick animation by the QB signaling each hot route, as is the current Madden 16 user experience when audibling with any quarterback. Blaine Gabbert, however, would consistently play a longer animation to complete an audible or hot route. Again, the audible would still succeed immediately - the WR would never not hear the audible like in NCAA - but this would limit the number of adjustments lower-AWR QBs can make pre-play and also increase the risk of user-triggered delay of game penalties. It'd place value in acquiring a veteran signal caller in franchise to hold down the fort while the low-AWR rookie gains XP on the sideline until his AWR is progressed high enough, as opposed to playing the rookie immediately and suffering through his lack of ability to make adjustments at the line of scrimmage. Risk-reward. I'd also prototype some intangible buffs for high-AWR QBs. For example, maybe high-AWR QBs automatically recognize a clean pocket in front of them and will automatically step up into it, increasing the chances of an accurate pass. High AWR QBs could also have better chances of triggering beneficial contextual actions without user input; for example, maybe Russell Wilson automatically extends his arm to put the ball in front of the first down marker when he is scrambling towards the line to gain while going out of bounds, so you get 1st and 10 instead of 3rd and 1. Things like this make AWR meaningful without getting in the way of the user's ability to perform the actions he wishes to perform in the game. With the exception of the auto-step-up idea, which I admit I'd want to be careful with as that could impact control, the user will never feel like control of the game is being ripped away from him while also being able to see the difference between high-AWR and low-AWR players.

I definitely like the idea of the longer animations for the audibles. Adds some depth while also employing strategy without sacrificing control. I honestly think now the game is due for some more realistic audible animations. Anything to differentiate QB's is a welcome idea.

Love the idea of having players have contextual animations for higher rated awareness. Some stuff I don't want to have to think about doing. It adds a "human" element to the players on the field. Which is all I really ask for. For example now how runners point out defenders to block in the open field, except that is more of a visual thing than an actual function that effects the gameplay, but still I like it....

As far as QB's actually throwing from the pocket, I do really like the double tap idea. I think it'd be nice to have the primary receiver already "loaded" so to speak so the double tap is not required. Maybe for QB's with a higher awareness, 2 receivers could be pre loaded, so the dump off pass or second look wouldn't require a double tap....

[bspring3]

I love this idea. Anytime I can take a 75 overall QB with low awareness and have a MVP caliber season in a very competitive online league, something is clearly wrong. A good user can take almost every QB and perform better than they should due to the god-like vision Madden grants you of the field. I hated the QB Vision cone due to its clunkiness but the idea was a great one. I think ND's idea achieves a similar result with a much more seamless method.