Vision Cone Alternative (How to make QB AWR matter)

[NDAlum]

I want to say I read a post from solidsquid or bigfndeal in a vision cone thread where they mentioned a "double tap" of some sort within the passing game. I apologize if this specific mechanic I'm about to post has been stated previously. If it has I haven't seen it laid out.

How to make QB AWR matter

Each pass play would have a primary read target where a single button passing mechanic would still apply. After the ball is snapped the receiver icon is vivid and "lit up" to indicate that receiver is the active read at the moment. All other receivers would have dim icons, but still visible. You could manually change the primary read on the pass play at the LOS.

For a QB to move on from the first read to any additional read the user would need to press the corresponding button of that receiver. There would be two variables in determining how fast the dim icon of the receiver becomes lit up and clear that the QB has fully recognized the read.

1. QB Awareness
2. Distance from 1st read to the new read (field could be broken down into 1/2, 1/3, 1/4)

These two variables could then determine the amount of time it takes the newly selected read to go from dim to lit up. The higher the QB AWR, the quicker the icon can light up. The lower the QB AWR, the longer it takes.

When the new read icon is still dim it should be possible to still throw the ball, but there should be an attribute penalty for accuracy on the throw.

It could be a pretty limited system, IMO, that would really enhance the meaning of AWR for QB's. It wouldn't be a distracting visual mechanic and wouldn't stress the user out too much with demanding too much of the way of "user skill". The big factor would simply be what the QB AWR is and how well the user can read the defense and pick what the best first read is against the D they see.

An example:

QB Aaron Rodgers with his likely 95+ AWR is throwing to a non-primary read in a pass play. Below are hypothetical time delays to get from the primary read to the new read and using a field breakdown of 1/3. (Field split into 3 pieces - left/mid/right)

Primary read is on the left side of the field and the new read will be on the right side of the field.

Standard time delay to change receiver: 0.10 seconds
Time delay to go from left 1/3 to right 1/3: 0.10 seconds

So it would take 0.20 seconds for the new read to have the icon light up

Then let's take Colin Kaepernick who struggles with AWR and he's making the same throw

Standard time delay to change receiver: 0.50
Time delay to go from left 1/3 to right 1/3: 0.25

So it would take 0.75 seconds for the new read to have the icon light up

I think this could really change the dynamic of passing and make AWR matter. Keep in mind my #'s are just fillers and it would be something that needed to be tested thoroughly to truly be represented well by this mechanic.

The mechanic would provide a tangible difference in QB user control. It would make AWR matter.

[bucky60]

Re: Vision Cone Alternative (How to make QB AWR matter)

I like it. I would like for something to be done to emulate QB awareness. I also would like the idea Head Coach had where the QB needs to learn the playbook. Maybe awareness could limit the plays in the playbook along with something like what you are suggesting.

[BreakingBad2013]

Re: Vision Cone Alternative (How to make QB AWR matter)

They could just not use the cone, but instead use RS to control the QBs head for him to look at or look off of WRs. And really high QBs would be able to slightly move zones with his eyes, and really good defenders would be able to know if he's bluffing or read his eyes for an INT.

When you're looking at the target the Icon would illuminate, but if you're not, your ball is more inaccurate and prone to throw a really bad ball. QBs with higher accuracy can see more of the field (without the light) and will be able to "look less" to get an accurate pass. This would also tie in with awareness.

Bad QBs would have to look "hard" to get their WR to illuminate.

With the illumination there could be a color scale tied to it, based on distance to tie into Pass Accuracy and Throw Power to see how good your QB will be at making the pass accurately.

For example, Cam Newton has Tedd Ginn on a skinny post down the middle, 40 yards down field. With his attributes he'd look at Ginn, and Ginny's button would turn green. Cam will be within 0-2 yards of his target or whatever and it's on Ginn to adjust.

Now say you have Kirk Cousins on the field, and he has a 20 yard out route on the far sideline to hit. With his throw power he may target the open WR, but it's going to take a lot of mustard to get there on time, and with a lower THP you may not take that chance when you see the WR button light up in orange, with a DB in the area.

And then red would be worst case in terms of THP and Accuracy combined.

If you need to tie in AWR, I would say that there could be a scale of the illination based on defenders in the area, and pocket pressure. The more pressure you're under, the less likely your pass will be completed, same with how close defenders are. But with low awareness your lights may illuminate in wrong colors, and you may throw a pick or get the ball tipped.

This would effectively, and easily make users feel a difference in Elite, a Good, Average, and Bad QBs without changing the entire system of passing. It literally adds an illumination and RS work. And this would be able to be turned off user by user.

I like your idea, I just don't see EA making the game not, "instant satisfaction" for users. You shouldn't have to wait on the game to tell you it's okay to pass, but if you can manually turn your QBs head to where you want, then maybe it'll lessen the blow of not having control. (Even then you can throw to a WR without looking with a huge risk) Also, turning your head may have a speed difference based on AWR

[NDAlum]

Re: Vision Cone Alternative (How to make QB AWR matter)

I feel like that option is too involved/complicated and would have trouble appealing to the wide user base. I'm not against it, just looking for something I feel could be implemented within a reasonable time frame.

[BreakingBad2013]

Re: Vision Cone Alternative (How to make QB AWR matter)

I feel like that option is too involved/complicated and would have trouble appealing to the wide user base. I'm not against it, just looking for something I feel could be implemented within a reasonable time frame.

Hence turning it off. It's to make QBs feel different, many users don't care about that. So you'd turn it off. Using a "looking" mechanic is very sim and realistic.

[rudyjuly2]

Re: Vision Cone Alternative (How to make QB AWR matter)

Other ideas. While this is cheating I do think WRs should get a bump in their route running ability depending on the QB awareness. Ever notice how open a good QB's receivers are? It's because he finds the guy that is open vs a bad QB that forces the ball into coverage. This cheats but this is a hard area to keep simple and make AWR matter.

Other thought: good AWR could flash red on the side of the screen where a pass rush comes from. Might help us to move away from it or get rid of the ball. OR an open WR could flash with a good QB helping us to make the right read at the right time. The amount of times it flashes should be linked to QB awareness. I'd never want to see it 100%.

Other thought #2: allow a bullet time function where a great AWR QB could hit a button (L2) about once every 10 plays to slow the play down, find the open guy and pass it. A bad QB may never use this function. This could be a big problem online and I'm not sure how many would like it. In reality a great QB makes about 5 plays a game that a bad one does not and that's usually the difference.

Of course everything should be an option to turn on/off.

[Dj_MyTime]

Re: Vision Cone Alternative (How to make QB AWR matter)

I simply say awareness should be tied to how soon the icons light up beyond the primary read, that you can set while under center. So the higher the awareness the quicker the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th options become available.

Secondly the RS (no cone), would represent looking left, middle, or to the right. So if your default read is to the right, and you want to look the defense off you can select a read on the left, and as the QB drop begins and finishes the QB's eyes are left. Then you just flick the stick to the right to pass to a backside read for example.

The passes can still be made without moving the RS but like the OP mentioned you would receive an awareness penalty. While looking at the receiver allows the QB to play to his ratings. I think that is a simple way to make awareness matter, as well as rewarded users who learn to look off defenders, like the best QBs do.

[TheGentlemanGhost]

Re: Vision Cone Alternative (How to make QB AWR matter)

This is the best way to do it. I've thought of this same idea as well. I don't think there's a better was to implement it.

[NDAlum]

Re: Vision Cone Alternative (How to make QB AWR matter)

Hence turning it off. It's to make QBs feel different, many users don't care about that. So you'd turn it off. Using a "looking" mechanic is very sim and realistic.

I'm not arguing your idea isn't realistic. I'm looking for a simple system. We could delve into footwork, cadence, accuracy to certain routes, mechanics, etc. to make it even more simple and realistic.

I'm trying to offer something I believe would have an impact on the game and not be overwhelming to the average Joe.

[Skyboxer]

Re: Vision Cone Alternative (How to make QB AWR matter)

Just implement a fine tuned NFL Fever Read and Lead system and I'd be in Heaven.

[NDAlum]

Re: Vision Cone Alternative (How to make QB AWR matter)

I simply say awareness should be tied to how soon the icons light up beyond the primary read, that you can set while under center. So the higher the awareness the quicker the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th options become available.

Secondly the RS (no cone), would represent looking left, middle, or to the right. So if your default read is to the right, and you want to look the defense off you can select a read on the left, and as the QB drop begins and finishes the QB's eyes are left. Then you just flick the stick to the right to pass to a backside read for example.

The passes can still be made without moving the RS but like the OP mentioned you would receive an awareness penalty. While looking at the receiver allows the QB to play to his ratings. I think that is a simple way to make awareness matter, as well as rewarded users who learn to look off defenders, like the best QBs do.

It's my POV that the RS would give the user a chance to override poor AWR and make the low AWR moot. I know there's a pretty split crowd on this as many guys here want to be in full control of the outcome and let their user skill be the highest factor in the outcome of the game.

I'm on the side of the fence that wants a huge impact to come from player ratings. The system is geared more towards the center of the fence and leaning towards the ratings>skill side.

[Dj_MyTime]

Re: Vision Cone Alternative (How to make QB AWR matter)

It's my POV that the RS would give the user a chance to override poor AWR and make the low AWR moot. I know there's a pretty split crowd on this as many guys here want to be in full control of the outcome and let their user skill be the highest factor in the outcome of the game.

I'm on the side of the fence that wants a huge impact to come from player ratings. The system is geared more towards the center of the fence and leaning towards the ratings>skill side.

Awareness would matter as in my example it affects, how quickly the icons light up for the 2nd, 3rd, or 4th reads. User can look and throw early but the icons not being fully lit would create an accuracy penalty.

[NDAlum]

Re: Vision Cone Alternative (How to make QB AWR matter)

Awareness would matter as in my example it affects, how quickly the icons light up for the 2nd, 3rd, or 4th reads. User can look and throw early but the icons not being fully lit would create an accuracy penalty.

I think it's more "user friendly" aka easier aka more people could effectively use it if it were a button push rather than moving the RS.

I think that ups the difficultly level.

Something that COULD be included in this mechanic is the head turn:

Example:

Pre-snap I select my read #1, once the ball is snapped my QB can look at that read. His head will be directly tracked to that read.

If I change the read to the #2 of my choice, the QB can turn his head to that read but the read wouldn't light up until he can fully read that side of the field, but he's still looking that way.

HOWEVER, let the QB go back to read #1 by pushing the initial read button. That way his head tracks back. You could completely make this a chess match of looking of safeties and aggressive users.

So in essence let's say I'm using A. Rodgers:

Pre-snap I want a deke primary route so I choose a TE seam up the middle [X]. I snap the ball and Rodgers is locked on [X] and I let him go 5 yards and then change to a dig route [O] that is coming into the field of play behind him. Boom I then hit the [O] button and Rodgers head tracks to that WR and then I dump it off after an aggressive safety or LB went after the seam.

Also I could fake look: give a quick tap to the second/third receiver then go back to my primary. The key would be the AWR in how quickly the QB I'm using could go through those reads. It would make AWR highly highly coveted.

I just don't want the RS involved as I think that's too much for the average Joe to incorporate into the passing scheme.

So just to clarify: all throws that aren't to the initial read of the play require two button pushes. One button to select that receiver and a second button push to throw the football.

[vannwolfhawk]

Re: Vision Cone Alternative (How to make QB AWR matter)

I think it's more "user friendly" aka easier aka more people could effectively use it if it were a button push rather than moving the RS.

I think that ups the difficultly level.

Something that COULD be included in this mechanic is the head turn:

Example:

Pre-snap I select my read #1, once the ball is snapped my QB can look at that read. His head will be directly tracked to that read.

If I change the read to the #2 of my choice, the QB can turn his head to that read but the read wouldn't light up until he can fully read that side of the field, but he's still looking that way.

HOWEVER, let the QB go back to read #1 by pushing the initial read button. That way his head tracks back. You could completely make this a chess match of looking of safeties and aggressive users.

So in essence let's say I'm using A. Rodgers:

Pre-snap I want a deke primary route so I choose a TE seam up the middle [X]. I snap the ball and Rodgers is locked on [X] and I let him go 5 yards and then change to a dig route [O] that is coming into the field of play behind him. Boom I then hit the [O] button and Rodgers head tracks to that WR and then I dump it off after an aggressive safety or LB went after the seam.

Also I could fake look: give a quick tap to the second/third receiver then go back to my primary. The key would be the AWR in how quickly the QB I'm using could go through those reads. It would make AWR highly highly coveted.

I just don't want the RS involved as I think that's too much for the average Joe to incorporate into the passing scheme.

So just to clarify: all throws that aren't to the initial read of the play require two button pushes. One button to select that receiver and a second button push to throw the football.

I mentioned this a few years back and really like the idea. It's something where like you said it isn't too complicated for the average joe but also appeals to the hardcore sim player. It's also realistic to real life football. Nothing worse than Robo qb throwing a dime across his body 50 yards down the field on the opposite side of the field before being sacked while not even looking in the direction he is throwing. This would make it so you would have to have a progression of reads. A split second where the qb has to have his head swivel to where he wants to pass. Eliminate the no look passes! Lol! This isn't basketball. I'm not sure how else you could do this any other way while appealing to the average joe and hardcore sim player? I cosign on your idea! :-)

[Aestis]

Re: Vision Cone Alternative (How to make QB AWR matter)

I like it in principle. Cool idea, vision/awareness/intelligence needs to matter more for QBs than it does, but the cone was awful, lol. Too slow. I think some version of this could be an elegant solution that conundrum that the only thing that really matters in Madden for a QB is his arm (strength & accuracy).