Unrealistic with speed drops in CFM

[ajra21]

Quote: Originally Posted by ForUntoOblivionSoar∞

Yeah it is unrealistic. Speed doesn't really go till 30 or even later like 35. Steve Young was still running past people at 36. Randy Moss lost a little speed late in his career but qhen he retired he still had 4.4 speed. Jerry Rice was still able to get behind a defense at 40. Players will lose a step at 30, 32, but not ten steps. Usually 26-30 is a Player's PRIME, not the time they start declining. Players usually don't decline noticeably until their 2nd free agent contract, or at least on the tail end of their first; not BEFORE their first free agent contract. Darrell Green was still one of the fastest players in the league even in his last couple of seasons.

actually, this is not accurate at all. sorry.

it's been proven that when it comes to speed & acceleration, players peak in the very early twenties, declining around 24/25yo. sprinters overcome this decline through rigorous training that NFL player to not partake in. for the vast majority of NFL players, their latest sprint times will come during draft season.

in general terms, players peak (physically) around 25-27yo in most sports. they maintain their performance by understanding and developing their awareness of how to play the sport they play.

guys likes green and young were insane (speed) athletes at their positions. young is on record saying he he was no longer overly fast by the time he was starting for the niners. instead, he learnt angles, jukes etc that enabled him to run past opponents. only last week on KNBR radio he mentioned knowing he was struggling to run around guys during his second season as the starting QB.

jerry rice got behind D because his route running & cuts were exceptional and he played in an O that was built on route deception. no DB knew where he was going to cut. equally, his downfield behind D threat was never his best skill because he wasn't overly fast. he was very good at quick movements & finding angles that prevented opponents from getting to him. he often beat CB deep with double moves and not speed.

the regression in madden is relatively accurate to real life. improve the players' AWR, PRC & INJ high enough and they'll maintain their OVR.

however, there should be more diversity on when different positions and players drop off. it's not perfect and because it's so different from what madden players are used to in past games, many believe it's not a fair reflection.

our understanding of physical peaks should not be set by previous madden games.

edit: moss' post-NFL career 40 time was dubious to say the least. it was hand timed with other factors that should make us raise an eyebrow.

[Dj_MyTime]

It's standard, from age 29 on, (-2) per attribute and it's not tied to Slow, Normal, Quick, or SS development.

You will see some players at 28 lose attributes as well, so that portion may be tied to development tiers.

[T4VERTS]

My issue is it shouldn't be set in stone. There are some older guys who, for whatever reason, do maintain their speed. I think it should be probability based, but the probability increases as they get older until early 30's where ti is 100% per year.

[Mattanite]

Quote: Originally Posted by Dj_MyTime

It's standard, from age 29 on, (-2) per attribute and it's not tied to Slow, Normal, Quick, or SS development. You will see some players at 28 lose attributes as well, so that portion may be tied to development tiers.

I thought it was, I mean, I have an entire excel spreadsheet for every position I made from info on here after someone detailed it for each dev at each position... I've never tested it but the info is there (can't find the thread, darn it).


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[KOTC Wayne]

Quote: Originally Posted by ajra21

actually, this is not accurate at all. sorry. it's been proven that when it comes to speed & acceleration, players peak in the very early twenties, declining around 24/25yo. sprinters overcome this decline through rigorous training that NFL player to not partake in. for the vast majority of NFL players, their latest sprint times will come during draft season. in general terms, players peak (physically) around 25-27yo in most sports. they maintain their performance by understanding and developing their awareness of how to play the sport they play. guys likes green and young were insane (speed) athletes at their positions. young is on record saying he he was no longer overly fast by the time he was starting for the niners. instead, he learnt angles, jukes etc that enabled him to run past opponents. only last week on KNBR radio he mentioned knowing he was struggling to run around guys during his second season as the starting QB. jerry rice got behind D because his route running & cuts were exceptional and he played in an O that was built on route deception. no DB knew where he was going to cut. equally, his downfield behind D threat was never his best skill because he wasn't overly fast. he was very good at quick movements & finding angles that prevented opponents from getting to him. he often beat CB deep with double moves and not speed. the regression in madden is relatively accurate to real life. improve the players' AWR, PRC & INJ high enough and they'll maintain their OVR. however, there should be more diversity on when different positions and players drop off. it's not perfect and because it's so different from what madden players are used to in past games, many believe it's not a fair reflection. our understanding of physical peaks should not be set by previous madden games. edit: moss' post-NFL career 40 time was dubious to say the least. it was hand timed with other factors that should make us raise an eyebrow.

I have to agree to disagree with this. No way players losing as much speed as madden has them losing starting at the age of 28.

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[CM Hooe]

Nope, the rate at which a player's top speed regresses in Madden NFL 17 isn't realistic, and there's data backing that up all over the place.

What it is, however, is an artificial gameplay device which places real pressure on you the user to constantly draft and develop players, which reinforces those core features of the mode and thus increases the sense of reward you feel when you do achieve those goals and build up your young rookies to starting-caliber players. It hits the high-level themes of "the NFL is a league of replacement" and "NFL - Not For Long" right on the nose (and really, it does this better than any other Madden game previous), so in that sense it is entirely authentic. It's also completely predictable in a way that adds meaningful gameplay challenge to franchise, and the game never "cheats" you - you know this regression is going to happen and thus can plan your team-building accordingly. It's solid game design and it makes for a fun video game.

I would like to see more open-ended player regression paths in future Madden games, for example a career arc like Steve Smith Sr. is basically impossible in the current setup. He'd have to start with a SPD rating of like 120 to still be a viable deep threat late into his 30s in M17. However, what we have in M17 is a real baseline starting point from which to build upon, as opposed to the arbitrary and imbalanced regression of past Madden games (looking at you, Madden 25, and your SPD 61 Percy Harvin starting for some team lol).

[KOTC Wayne]

Quote: Originally Posted by CM Hooe

Nope, the rate at which a player's top speed regresses in Madden NFL 17 isn't realistic, and there's data backing that up all over the place. What it is, however, is an artificial gameplay device which places real pressure on you the user to constantly draft and develop players, which reinforces those core features of the mode and thus increases the sense of reward you feel when you do achieve those goals and build up your young rookies to starting-caliber players. It hits the high-level themes of "the NFL is a league of replacement" and "NFL - Not For Long" right on the nose (and really, it does this better than any other Madden game previous), so in that sense it is entirely authentic. It's also completely predictable in a way that adds meaningful gameplay challenge to franchise, and the game never "cheats" you - you know this regression is going to happen and thus can plan your team-building accordingly. It's solid game design and it makes for a fun video game. I would like to see more open-ended player regression paths in future Madden games, for example a career arc like Steve Smith Sr. is basically impossible in the current setup. He'd have to start with a SPD rating of like 120 to still be a viable deep threat late into his 30s in M17. However, what we have in M17 is a real baseline starting point from which to build upon, as opposed to the arbitrary and imbalanced regression of past Madden games (looking at you, Madden 25, and your SPD 61 Percy Harvin starting for some team lol).

Also need to have a minimum of every attribute at each position. What I mean by this is no WR should have a speed slower than let's say 85 speed or no offensive or defensive lineman strength should be lower than lets say 84 and Im just randomly throwing those numbers out there . Wrs would either change over to TE or retire once their speed goes close to 80 so to have WRs still in the league and their speed be in the 70s is ridiculous.

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[timhere1970]

Quote: Originally Posted by KOTC Wayne

Also need to have a minimum of every attribute at each position. What I mean by this is no WR should have a speed slower than let's say 85 speed or no offensive or defensive lineman strength should be lower than lets say 84 and Im just randomly throwing those numbers out there . Wrs would either change over to TE or retire once their speed goes close to 80 so to have WRs still in the league and their speed be in the 70s is ridiculous. Sent from my SM-N910P using Operation Sports mobile app

Yes, when players no longer have basic physical skills they should retire. I should not be Abel to throw over a 72 speed corner back all day which hapens if you play many years. Players regression should be variable and once they fall below a thresh hold they should be gone. I wish the retirement package for my coach would make my players come to me and ask if they should retire instead of making players hang around when they are washed up.