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How to make QB release speed matter

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Old 05-02-2018, 06:22 AM   #9
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Re: How to make QB release speed matter

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Originally Posted by reyes the roof
I think you guys are essentially talking about the same thing. A defensive back isn't going to jump routes as aggressively against Aaron Rodgers and his quick release the same way they would against Byron Leftwich
They'd jump it just as aggressively. It'd just be WHEN they jump it that's difference (with respect to when the release begins).
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Old 05-02-2018, 08:47 AM   #10
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Re: How to make QB release speed matter

Agree with everything except #4. Defenders shouldn't auto start defending if they
1) Have their backs turned. Too much of this in the game already
2) Being driven away from the pass by another receiving threat.

I know this is common sense but it's like if it's not spelled out we'll see defenders making all kind of plays they have no business making.

I said the same thing with respect to throw power. I'd like to see a visible difference in throw power, especially when throwing from the hashes to the opposite sideline. Some QB's just don't have the arm to get it there before a defender can undercut it. Others do. This would be another way to differentiate QB's and the passing offenses that people run.

With throw power, I'd like to see guys be able to throw 80 yards if they have that kind of arm. But Madden doesn't allow that. I've tested it extensively. At best you're going to throw it 65 yds and your WR will post up with the DB on the landing point to catch it. Of course, the problem is guys would just wait until their WR clear the DB and launch TD's. BUT to me, that's not a problem so much as guys want to play every person the same defensively. My argument would be if you know you are facing a QB that can throw it that far then you have to play that QB differently on defense. Don't give him time.
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Old 05-02-2018, 06:57 PM   #11
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Re: How to make QB release speed matter

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Originally Posted by LBzrule
Agree with everything except #4. Defenders shouldn't auto start defending if they
1) Have their backs turned. Too much of this in the game already
2) Being driven away from the pass by another receiving threat.

I know this is common sense but it's like if it's not spelled out we'll see defenders making all kind of plays they have no business making.

I said the same thing with respect to throw power. I'd like to see a visible difference in throw power, especially when throwing from the hashes to the opposite sideline. Some QB's just don't have the arm to get it there before a defender can undercut it. Others do. This would be another way to differentiate QB's and the passing offenses that people run.

With throw power, I'd like to see guys be able to throw 80 yards if they have that kind of arm. But Madden doesn't allow that. I've tested it extensively. At best you're going to throw it 65 yds and your WR will post up with the DB on the landing point to catch it. Of course, the problem is guys would just wait until their WR clear the DB and launch TD's. BUT to me, that's not a problem so much as guys want to play every person the same defensively. My argument would be if you know you are facing a QB that can throw it that far then you have to play that QB differently on defense. Don't give him time.
Iím iffy on 4 myself. But they can still make it where dbs in zone coverage begin their breaks as soon as the player pushes the button, and make the throwing animation slower for a slow release qb, giving the defender an extra split second to get there. In other words, holding all other traits constant EXCEPT release speed, a slower release animation (tied to a trait) would give the defender a bit more time to get to the point of reception.

This would be even more import when throwing under pressure. DONíT change how the defender behaves at ALL based on release speed. Just use a faster animation for those with the trait, and add animations that qbs who have fast releases actually due in the NFl with players in their face.


In other words, with a lineman in your face, fast release = completion, slow release = sack or fumble.
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Old 05-02-2018, 06:59 PM   #12
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Re: How to make QB release speed matter

Quote:
Originally Posted by LBzrule
Agree with everything except #4. Defenders shouldn't auto start defending if they
1) Have their backs turned. Too much of this in the game already
2) Being driven away from the pass by another receiving threat.

I know this is common sense but it's like if it's not spelled out we'll see defenders making all kind of plays they have no business making.

I said the same thing with respect to throw power. I'd like to see a visible difference in throw power, especially when throwing from the hashes to the opposite sideline. Some QB's just don't have the arm to get it there before a defender can undercut it. Others do. This would be another way to differentiate QB's and the passing offenses that people run.

With throw power, I'd like to see guys be able to throw 80 yards if they have that kind of arm. But Madden doesn't allow that. I've tested it extensively. At best you're going to throw it 65 yds and your WR will post up with the DB on the landing point to catch it. Of course, the problem is guys would just wait until their WR clear the DB and launch TD's. BUT to me, that's not a problem so much as guys want to play every person the same defensively. My argument would be if you know you are facing a QB that can throw it that far then you have to play that QB differently on defense. Don't give him time.
Regarding throwing power, there isnít much difference between qbs in the game. Nor do I think distance even factors in. It seems like all it affects is how fast the ball moves. Could be wrong, but thatís what I see.
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Old 05-03-2018, 07:46 PM   #13
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Re: How to make QB release speed matter

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Originally Posted by ForUntoOblivionSoar∞
First I'm going to tell you why I feel this needs to matter in the game, and then I'm going to give a way that it could be easily implemented.



I've been on Jimmy Garoppolo's jock for a bit, and here is why: he has a certain gift that is so powerful that even when he's wrong, he's still right. This is what I'm talking about:



He doesn't see the linebacker. If Colin Kaepernick throws that, it's a pick six. But his release is fast enough to beat the linebacker's read on the pattern. The linebacker is on the way to the point of reception the moment Jimmy G brings his arm back to throw, but his throwing motion is so quick that the linebacker cannot get there in time.

Here is another gif showcasing release speed and angle and why it's a HIGHLY underrated trait:






And HERE is an example of what happens when you have a SLOW release (thank you Colin Kaepernick):
*note: if these gif's disappear, they are from the 2015 game against the Cardinals where he had back to back pick sixes.






As you can see, this physical trait is VERY important in the NFL. It needs to matter in the game. Kaepernick's passes here were telegraphed because of his LONG wind up and release.




So here is how you implement it in Madden:


Step 1: Remove choice of throwing/stance from character creation except as a trait. (i.e., it is no longer a mere cosmetic thing).

Step 2: Set up a trait called "Release speed," which will have a few tiers: Slow release (long wind-up will be the animation- like Kaepernick); Average release (your normal QB release speed); Fast release (similar to the previous but a little faster); Elite release (Jimmy G, Tom Brady, etc). These traits will come with animations. The Elite ones will have very efficient releases, the lower tier will have long windups. Side-arm, three-quarters and other cosmetic variations could still be implemented.

Step 3: Add special animations for those with Elite Release speed that will allow for them to twist their body and get rid of the ball with a defender all up in their face.

Step 4 (Most important part): For SLOW release QBs, make defenders begin their break on the pass at the moment the player presses the pass button (as long as the defender has an AVERAGE awareness/reaction rating). With the animation for release being slower, and the defender getting a head start on the pass instead of reacting late (which as it stands now, I believe is a function of QUARTERBACK awareness), make the defender's break on the ball timing depend on the RELEASE trait of the QB. If the QB has a slow release, not only does the slightly slower animation give the defender an advantage over a fast release QB, the defender also gets what amounts to an awareness boost: he breaks on the ball as soon as the button is

Do these things, or something similar, and suddenly one of the most important skills a QB has can finally be brought into Madden.


"If it's in the game, it's in the game," after all. And at this point it is NOT. So put this in.
This!!!! Been wanting this for so long. APF did it soooo well. Would love to see Dan Marinoís release.

I have a gif Iíd like to add. But I donít know how to on mobile.
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Old 05-04-2018, 09:42 AM   #14
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Re: How to make QB release speed matter

While I'd love to see more differentiation between QBs outside of their THP and mobility what you are proposing would essentially be giving every defender 91 ZCV when the opposing QB has the slow release trait. This would make passing the ball almost impossible.
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Old 05-04-2018, 05:41 PM   #15
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Re: How to make QB release speed matter

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Originally Posted by ForUntoOblivionSoar∞
Not a fan of that at ALL. Just have their reaction begin the moment you press the button, and a slower release will give them a split second more to get to the ball. I really hate having Madden QB ratings affect how CBs cover. The only way that happens in real life is if the qb uses a pump fake or his eyes to trick them.

Tom Brady doesnít make defenders react slower. He just reads defenses better and throws more accurately than anyone else.
What I'm referring to is strictly the strategy the user employs and the use of coaching tools. I don't want the CPU players to react any faster based on QB release speed.

I'm just saying if I'm playing another user and I'm playing against a QB with a slow release, I'll change the DB strategy to have go for interceptions instead of playing the ball since once they see the arm motion start they'll have that extra split second to break on the ball. I'm strictly talking coaching strategy and how it'll create more of a chess match.

I do think we are saying the same thing.
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Old 05-05-2018, 07:39 AM   #16
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Re: How to make QB release speed matter

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Originally Posted by stinkubus
While I'd love to see more differentiation between QBs outside of their THP and mobility what you are proposing would essentially be giving every defender 91 ZCV when the opposing QB has the slow release trait. This would make passing the ball almost impossible.
Welcome to the main reason why Colin Kaepernick regressed and didn’t become a functional qb again until he was in an offense where timing was far less critical (Chip Kelly, with his large amount of drags and dynamic routes that allow the qb to wait and see the wr open rather than throw with timing, which requires at least a decent release speed).


If a qb has a slow release, he either masters throwing with anticipation or he fails.
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