First play of Titans game tonight - bootleg

[tg88forHOF]

Quote: Originally Posted by PhillyPhanatic14

I would argue that the Chiefs and Ravens are embracing the meta of having an other-worldly QB.

I actually thought about exactly those two guys as I was typing that. Is that really what we'd consider a meta, though? In essence, that strategy boils down to "get the most talented players you can", which sounds less like a meta, and more like, well, sound sports advice generally.

Regardless, we're basically saying the same thing different ways. Both NFL coaches and high-level competitive Madden players are looking for advantages to exploit. The advantages Madden players are looking for just have very little to do with actual football.

[tg88forHOF]

Quote: Originally Posted by Madden08PCgmr

Quote of the century right there...

And so well cropped and edited to remove context and support one's point 😉

[CM Hooe]

Quote: Originally Posted by Madden08PCgmr

Quote of the century right there...

You omitted a very important part of the quote - "high-level competitive Madden play will never resemble actual factual football". In doing so you changed the author's intent, which means you aren't engaging with his ideas honestly.

If you're going to discuss ideas with a person and expect to be taken seriously, you need to engage with what that person is actually saying, not just twist their words to weakly support your own point. This isn't even like a TOS violation or anything, this is just like "exchanging ideas with other human beings 101".

Listen and understand people first, respond second.

[tg88forHOF]

I'd argue the other clause of the statement - "no matter what game EA put in front of them" - is equally or more important.

What mostly sets the high-level guys apart from the rest of us are what would broadly be considered "stick skills"; that's what they're very good at, and those are the advantages they will....and honestly should be...always be seeking to exploit.

That's why we got an all-run Madden Bowl...the player found a strategy that maximized what he was good at and minimized his opponent's ability to counter it with his own stick skills. That's what "money play" concepts are founded on, and why 80% of the content at sites like Madden School is glitchy, overpowering blitzes....advantages that minimize the engine and maximize the player's stick skills.

Pretend EA created a hyper-realistic game....the on-field football sim we've all been begging for. The kind of game OS would hail as the best possible representation of realistic simulation without descending to pure spreadsheets.

The Madden Bowl for that game would still not resemble real football, because the top level players aren't looking for real football advantages; the things that make them special...that make them winners in their chosen arena...are different.

[Kanobi]

Quote: Originally Posted by tg88forHOF

Pretend EA created a hyper-realistic game....the on-field football sim we've all been begging for. The kind of game OS would hail as the best possible representation of realistic simulation without descending to pure spreadsheets. The Madden Bowl for that game would still not resemble real football, because the top level players aren't looking for real football advantages; the things that make them special...that make them winners in their chosen arena...are different.

If Madden's engine ever reached the level of realism you describe, I think competitive exploit attempts would be penalized heavily and organically to a point where the Madden Bowl would bear a closer resemblance to real football than we might think.

[kehlis]

Quote: Originally Posted by Kanobi

If Madden's engine ever reached the level of realism you describe, I think competitive exploit attempts would be penalized heavily and organically to a point where the Madden Bowl would bear a closer resemblance to real football than we might think.

I tend to agree with you that it could be done, I just don’t think that’s what a majority of people want.

(I know no one likes to hear OS is a small audience and it is larger than most here want to admit to but it’s still wholelistically small with all things considered.)

[tg88forHOF]

Quote: Originally Posted by Kanobi

If Madden's engine ever reached the level of realism you describe, I think competitive exploit attempts would be penalized heavily and organically to a point where the Madden Bowl would bear a closer resemblance to real football than we might think.

That's kind of opening up the age-old question: how close is close enough?

You're probably right about pure exploits...if the game were that tightly constructed, EA would have a much better base to aggressively focus on and deal with them. Then again, what we saw in the Madden Bowl was less an "exploit", and more just leveraging the reality of what the engine is. I recognize that "flawed handling of outside zones" could arguably be considered an unintended feature, and leveraging it thus considered an "exploit", but that's mighty arguable both ways.

At any rate, I have faith in the competitive crowd's creativity and tenacity in doing everything possible to make it more a video game, and less a football simulator. You're right that it'd probably be closer, but I'm also betting most of us would look at that closer result and say "yeah, that still isn't football".

[PhillyPhanatic14]

Quote: Originally Posted by kehlis

I tend to agree with you that it could be done, I just don’t think that’s what a majority of people want. (I know no one likes to hear OS is a small audience and it is larger than most here want to admit to but it’s still wholelistically small with all things considered.)

There's a crazy amount of evidence - success of MUT, SS KO, The Yard for example - to back this up. Customization & fun sells more than realism these days.