Honestly, Madden 09 the game that's sucked the enthusiasm out of me

[DTown]

Quote: Originally Posted by SoxFan01605

Just as a quick aside...the point about multiple announcing crews is a different animal when speaking of FIFA. They are various international crews made available as this game is internationally popular. The multiple crews people have asked for would be a different money and availablity issue than what they dealt with in FIFA. Anyway, back to the regulary scheduled argument

That is true but the point is that it has been done. And that means if it has been done on other games it can be done in Madden.
I am sure they could get Mike Tirico, Tony Kornhiser, Troy Aikman, Joe Buck, Chris Collinsworth, Tom Hammond and The Radio Guy (Blackouts) for announcing. Then Rich Eisen for an NFLN pregame show, Chris Berman Halftime show and Stuart Scott for an ESPN Postgame show.
If FIFA can have like 50 different announce teams then why not 3 and radio guy for Madden?

[SoxFan01605]

Quote: Originally Posted by DTown

That is true but the point is that it has been done. And that means if it has been done on other games it can be done in Madden. I am sure they could get Mike Tirico, Tony Kornhiser, Troy Aikman, Joe Buck, Chris Collinsworth, Tom Hammond and The Radio Guy (Blackouts) for announcing. Then Rich Eisen for an NFLN pregame show, Chris Berman Halftime show and Stuart Scott for an ESPN Postgame show. If FIFA can have like 50 different announce teams then why not 3 and radio guy for Madden?

lol...well, the answer is $$$. The announce teams you are requesting will demand far more money than the portugese announcers in FIFA

Plus, many would want the presentation to go along with the announcers...which means more money for brand licensing (In the case of Fox).

It's just not worth the money to them...at least when your talking the names you mention.

And to explain further, all they did in FIFA was unlock the region based commentary that was already included in the various versions of the game so that all players could play with any of the language packs. Again, a very different animal.

Now, the "radio guy" and maybe doing a generic play by play with Madden might be a more reasonable request for your 3 options as that wouldn't be causing the same restraint, I would imagine.

[DTown]

Quote: Originally Posted by SoxFan01605

lol...well, the answer is $$$. The announce teams you are requesting will demand far more money than the portugese announcers in FIFA Plus, many would want the presentation to go along with the announcers...which means more money for brand licensing (In the case of Fox). It's just not worth the money to them...at least when your talking the names you mention. And to explain further, all they did in FIFA was unlock the region based commentary that was already included in the various versions of the game so that all players could play with any of the language packs. Again, a very different animal. Now, the "radio guy" and maybe doing a generic play by play with Madden might be a more reasonable request for your 3 options as that wouldn't be causing the same restraint, I would imagine.

Yeah but thats just the thing. They make sooooo much money off of Madden because they are the only football game around. Why not use some of that money that we shell out each year to give us fans what we want? Because they could care less about what we want.
Now if they were competing with 2k they would be more likely to shell out the extra cash don't ya think?
I mean they would only have to pay alot this year and then every other year they could just do some touch up work.
But like you said it cost to much money, hey I think $60 for the same game every year that never makes the changes that fans BEGGGGG for every year is way to much but I continue to spend it. lol.

[roadman]

Quote: Originally Posted by DTown

Yeah but thats just the thing. They make sooooo much money off of Madden because they are the only football game around. Why not use some of that money that we shell out each year to give us fans what we want? Because they could care less about what we want. Now if they were competing with 2k they would be more likely to shell out the extra cash don't ya think? I mean they would only have to pay alot this year and then every other year they could just do some touch up work. But like you said it cost to much money, hey I think $60 for the same game every year that never makes the changes that fans BEGGGGG for every year is way to much but I continue to spend it. lol.

Madden might be the money train, but EA is the parent company. Just recently, Tibouran has laid off employees and game testers.

It's the outcome of your whole parent company, not some division. If one part of a company is doing well and other divisions are under performing, usually the whole company suffers.

[SoxFan01605]

Quote: Originally Posted by DTown

Yeah but thats just the thing. They make sooooo much money off of Madden because they are the only football game around. Why not use some of that money that we shell out each year to give us fans what we want? Because they could care less about what we want. Now if they were competing with 2k they would be more likely to shell out the extra cash don't ya think? I mean they would only have to pay alot this year and then every other year they could just do some touch up work. But like you said it cost to much money, hey I think $60 for the same game every year that never makes the changes that fans BEGGGGG for every year is way to much but I continue to spend it. lol.

lol...you're straying from the point. It's not too much money from a "willingness" standpoint. It's too much money from a profit standpoint. They wouldn't make enough profit to be able to justify it.

The expenditure wouldn't be a front-loaded type thing either (where the cost gradually comes down). They would be paying more for the name than the lines themselves (As another aside, Joe Buck has already refused to do it in the past...I believe it was Phill who said that).

Also, "being the only game in town" doesn't mean anything to bottom line. I can assure you there are plenty of 2Kers who prefer to just stick with 2K5 and APF. The competition wouldn't help here because I can promise you the competition wouldn't spend the money on 3 sets of big name broadcasters either...lol.

Your confusing the "competition breeds innovation" argument (which I do agree with) with something else entirely. EA would be foolish to spend money on 3 separate big name broadcast teams AND associated presentation.

We already know, from previous conversations with them, that EA is trying to present it's own brand...meaning these types of varied TV presentations are a pipe dream anyway.

As for your last point (comparing your spending 60$ on to EAs spending)...I do see a definite similarity there...you're both doing what's best for EA

[DTown]

Quote: Originally Posted by SoxFan01605

lol...you're straying from the point. It's not too much money from a "willingness" standpoint. It's too much money from a profit standpoint. They wouldn't make enough profit to be able to justify it. The expenditure wouldn't be a front-loaded type thing either (where the cost gradually comes down). They would be paying more for the name than the lines themselves (As another aside, Joe Buck has already refused to do it in the past...I believe it was Phill who said that). Also, "being the only game in town" doesn't mean anything to bottom line. I can assure you there are plenty of 2Kers who prefer to just stick with 2K5 and APF. The competition wouldn't help here because I can promise you the competition wouldn't spend the money on 3 sets of big name broadcasters either...lol. Your confusing the "competition breeds innovation" argument (which I do agree with) with something else entirely. EA would be foolish to spend money on 3 separate big name broadcast teams AND associated presentation. We already know, from previous conversations with them, that EA is trying to present it's own brand...meaning these types of varied TV presentations are a pipe dream anyway. As for your last point (comparing your spending 60$ on to EAs spending)...I do see a definite similarity there...you're both doing what's best for EA

Then if they are trying to do their "own" brand why even bother with the NFL and it's teams? I mean you can't say on one hand "we are going to bring you an NFL expierence that you have never had before! It is going to be as if your watching the game on T.V." and then on the other hand say "No no no we won't bring in multiple teams and use TV presentations of the companies that host the shows because we don't want it to be just like the real NFL we want to have our own thing." They have to pick a side and stick with it.
Do you care about what the fans want or not? Are you going to give the fans a true NFL expierence or not?
You can't just flip flop when it suits your needs! This is exactly what I mean when I say they don't care about the fans.
And fine if they want their own style then just design 3 of your own styled presentations! Bring in 2 sets of commentators that are no namers or a commentator and a former player. Then you have your 2 big name guys for Primetime games and the radio guy with the generic Madden presentation we have all grown to know and... well know for games that are blacked out. Come on now! There are ways around this crap!

[Tito78]

Quote: Originally Posted by DTown

Yeah but thats just the thing. They make sooooo much money off of Madden because they are the only football game around. Why not use some of that money that we shell out each year to give us fans what we want? Because they could care less about what we want. Now if they were competing with 2k they would be more likely to shell out the extra cash don't ya think? I mean they would only have to pay alot this year and then every other year they could just do some touch up work. But like you said it cost to much money, hey I think $60 for the same game every year that never makes the changes that fans BEGGGGG for every year is way to much but I continue to spend it. lol.

All of the money made from madden probably gets allocated towards the improvements of other EA sports games, where there is direct compitetion. Madden is merely a roster update with some cosmetic improvments to go along with some new gimicky features for marketing purposes.

[SoxFan01605]

Quote: Originally Posted by DTown

Then if they are trying to do their "own" brand why even bother with the NFL and it's teams? I mean you can't say on one hand "we are going to bring you an NFL expierence that you have never had before! It is going to be as if your watching the game on T.V." and then on the other hand say "No no no we won't bring in multiple teams and use TV presentations of the companies that host the shows because we don't want it to be just like the real NFL we want to have our own thing." They have to pick a side and stick with it. Do you care about what the fans want or not? Are you going to give the fans a true NFL expierence or not? You can't just flip flop when it suits your needs! This is exactly what I mean when I say they don't care about the fans. And fine if they want their own style then just design 3 of your own styled presentations! Bring in 2 sets of commentators that are no namers or a commentator and a former player. Then you have your 2 big name guys for Primetime games and the radio guy with the generic Madden presentation we have all grown to know and... well know for games that are blacked out. Come on now! There are ways around this crap!

lol...your spinning arguments that have nothing to do with anything. Promoting their own brand doesn't mean they're not trying to give us a realsitic NFL experience. It just means they are trying to promote their own brand. They can do both...they just haven't done it the way we want it yet.

I'm not saying anything you've mentioned can't ever be done, just trying to give some perspective here. In fact, I gave you an example of how it could be done in a more low budget way. You're only arguing extremes though. To expect this game to have EVERYTHING that's EVER been in any sports game all at once is a one-year turnaround is naive and silly.

It amuses me how someone has an idea and then decides that it has to be feasible if they compiled it from various other game's ideas. It's beyond just the money, it's also about priority. The reason some games have option A, but not option B, and then the competition has the opposite isn't always "ha ha, we got the consumer." It's often an issue of priority.

Every game developer has to make tough decisions about what can and can't make it in a given year. If you choose not to believe Ian and Phill (who I'm sure will explain things like this to you), feel free to ask any one of the numerous developers for other games that frequent the site. They'll tell you... there's a valid reason (generally speaking...not saying that Madden, for example, can't do more than it has) why some games have things others don't.

Also, as I recall, things like audio take up considerable space. Not that that isn't a combatable issue, but it's something to consider. Additionally, if they put in multiple announcers then people would just complain that the lines weren't good enough. That's the point, it's always a case of escalation. They add A, B, and C and we then ask for D, E, and F

I'm not saying it can't ever be done...just that you're not going to get absolutely every little wish and dream rolled into one development cycle. It's not about whether or not they care about us, it's about resources. Yes, in the end it does come down to money.

Nobody in any retail industry is going to give you a product with no hopes of a profit. What you're asking of Madden (in total, not by breakdown) is to do what is not YET possible to do without serious loss (if at all, do to some restraints of the systems they develop for As I understand it RAM is an issue...and not just for Madden).

As for the constant "EA doesn't care about us" comments. No,as a company they don't...at least not as anything more than consumers

Neither does 2K, SCEA, or any other company you choose to mention. It's okay though, because we don't care about them either. We just demand what WE want without consideration for their end of things. It's a perfectly normal busiiness relationship.

None of this is defense of what Madden has been. Ian knows he needs to step it up and there is plenty of work to be done. I'm just talking about rational thought.

I'm all for your ideas. I'm sure the developers are all for them as well (more for them to pool from). I hope they eventually get to the point where they have ALL these types of things. It's just so easy to get caught up in wishlist ideas...not as easy to actually get them all incorporated right away.

Take care