Breaking Down Sliders... How They Really Work

[stanley roper]

Quote: Originally Posted by bill2451

might have been a little harsh, just annoyed that every other person on OS would rather bash something, comment on something without understanding the point of the thread, complain, etc, rather than trying to be constructive and solve the problem I know there are fundamental AI problems (qb's taking sacks, open flats, db/wr interactions, etc), but that doesnt mean a good, fun, competitive, somewhat realistic game can't be achieved... that was the entire point of this thread and it seems like you wrote it off for problems we all know exist and are trying to fix and so I took all my annoyances out on you w/ a sarcastic post... right or not, i'm not going to sugarcoat it, that's how I felt and I don't see any reason to pretend I didnt. It's nothing personal, but for the life of me I can't see how your post had any benefit to anyone. It's as if you're annoyed with the game so you're trying to get everyone else to be annoyed with it too. And imo that is worse than any insult I can say on an online forum and again, that's how i feel after seeing every other person on this forum doing that... it's just tiring after a while if you dont want to contribute positively to this thread that is perfectly fine, but I don't see why you have to contribute negatively... i just dont see how that helps

The thing is that I wasn't trying to be negative, instead be positive by telling you guys, it's not the problems of the sliders, it's the AI. As I understand, the EA guys come here to look at what people have to say and when they read stuff like this, they look into it and try to solve the problem. but with you telling people not to say things like that and be supportive, it's not going to fix the issues.

This is relevant mind you. I been messing with sliders since the game came out and although there are good ones and some bad ones, I must say that all of them work the same. Reason why is because the AI is fixed to play certain ways.

I'm not trying to rain on anybody's parade. I'm just trying to let you all know how these "sliders really work".

[bill2451]

if you're saying sliders don't effect how the game plays/works (which is what a comment like, "all of them work the same," would imply) then you are flat out wrong, period, end of discussion... you clearly havent read this thread or played the game if that is your opinion... and if that is the case, your comments dont even deserve the time of day because they're so ridiculous

if your implying EA is sifting through this entire thread and your post is going to effect what they do with Madden 11 (or a patch), again your flat out wrong,

they know whats wrong w/ their game, we know whats wrong w/ their game, and they know we know... whether or not they do anything however is solely based on a business standpoint and they will do whatever they determine is financially going to net them the biggest profit... thats the real world

they don't care what you think

and dont get me wrong, i'm not saying people shouldnt complain, but blanket statements like yours are ridiculous... surely a random post that will be buried in this thread isnt the best way to get your voice heard anyway, if you wanted your voice heard by EA ppl then wouldnt making your own thread would have been the way to go? From my standpoint it looks exactly as I said it did earlier... you arent happy with Madden, as a result you will complain as much as possible and try to get other people to not be happy with Madden too, that is the only point of your original post

now if you had said something like "There are certain aspects of Madden that can not be fixed via the user/cpu sliders... the cpu blitzes way too much, the flats are never covered, the AI simply is too far behind where it should be and isnt nearly smart enough against humans," etc, then we could have had a real conversation and your complaints would have been legitimate...

I fully understand the programming in Madden at this point is often counter intuitive and screwy because they are trying to work around other programming that has been written to work around other programming that has been used to cover up other programming issues and so and and so forth... it builds on one another to the point where things are connected that have no business being connected (for example QB Acc effects WR route running)... I understand all these issues

I realize that all other things completely equal I would beat the AI 100% of the time because it just isnt as smart as me and can exploit its flaws

and despite all those issues, behind it all there is something redeemable... by understanding how the sliders effect the game and interact w/ one another, AND sprinkling in a few house rules to try and make up for the poor AI logic/game programming, I believe we can create a good, fun, competitive, and as realistic as possible (at this time) football experience...

We've all bought the game, you or I can vow to not buy it next year, whatever, but we've all already bought it this year, so forgive me in not seeing the harm in making an effort, rather than just bitching. Forgive me (and everyone else who's helped out in this thread, and there are a bunch of you) for making the best of the situation and trying to give people as enjoyable an experience as possible... because clearly we should all just throw our hands up in the air and quit, that would solve all our problems.

[QB1]

I already have. Playmakers are really good. I didnt know you were a bodyguard for hire.

Anyway, I simply dont understand the point of this thread. This guy has repeatedly said that he will post his sliders in a few days or next week. Why the hold up? He stated earlier that he created this thread to help people understand how the sliders work based on these theories and there has been nothing. Yet he goes into a tirade when someone questions the validity of his "theories".

Sounds like a bunch of hot air if you ask me.

[dorsett33]

whoooaaa, guys, guys!!........is all of this bickering back and forth really necessary? Ive been following this thread since its inception along with a couple of other threads and ALL of them have some very interesting information and options to offer. You take in and use from them what you want. These guys have put in a lot of hours in front of they're systems to try to bless all of us with options and theories to make this game as realistic and enjoyable as possible. If you dont agree with what is said, (or written in this case) dont adhere to it. Simple as that. But i dont think its cute or cunning to just bash another man's ideas just because you might have a different opinion of what is actually happening or because your tired of waiting for his specific slider set. We are all men here (I think). Its fine to agree to disagree but to voice your disagreements in the form of malice laced verbal attacks is really uneccessary in my opinion. Take it how you wanna take it..........

Now, that having been said, can we PLEASE get back to the task at hand GENTLEMEN?............

[bill2451]

just because theres no sliders on the first page doesnt mean sliders havent been posted throughout this thread

and I also havent seen anyone provide any evidence to disprove any of these "theories"

either way, if other ppl find this thread useful who are u to say this thread is pointless?

[mike246]

Quote: Originally Posted by bill2451

just because theres no sliders on the first page doesnt mean sliders havent been posted throughout this thread and I also havent seen anyone provide any evidence to disprove any of these "theories" either way, if other ppl find this thread useful who are u to say this thread is pointless?

But nobody has provided evidence to prove these theories either.For my part,i am following these threads with great interest,and have tried most of the sliders in this forum,and have come to the conclusion that,they all turn out pretty much the same,basically a very dumbed down game.I am working another angle,i have set all cpu sliders to 100 and player at 75,similar to pro,and tweaking from there.Also took control of all teams and am screwing around with other teams coaching scheme sliders,like turning up defense aggression but not seeing much there.

[Steeler99]

I'm still anxiously awaiting the slider set you come up with Bill, although I suspect they will require more tuning after the patch drops. I can also see the point QB1 made .... these theories serve pretty much no purpose without a slider set intended to prove them accurate.

You say no one has proved these theories to be wrong, but in that same line of thinking you have yet to prove these theories correct? Without a slider set to go with the theories, they will remain just that ... theories.

Like most of you I am also working on my own set of sliders. I have no real theories to base mine off of, I simply picked a starting point with most of the HUM and CPU sliders set between AP and AM (12.5 on main sliders). I chose this spot because I find AP to play pretty good albeit too easy, with AM being a bit too artificial. My first obvious adjustments were to strengthen the CPU run game, and make both passing offenses more realistic (more missed/dropped passes). Now I'm hoping to fine-tune defensive play, although I'm really waiting on the patch to consider any set final enough to start a franchise.

Anyway, let's see what you've come up with Bill ......

[bill2451]

ive proved many of these theories w/out a doubt correct (and given people simple instructions to replicate my tests so they could see it in a controlled environment for themselves), I just never combined them into a full set and posted it, because frankly everyone still has different play styles/skill levels

Just one example, I proved that besides CPU Reaction time, that the QB accuracy and WR Catching sliders effect the WR/DB interactions in regards to route running and how quickly the DB reacts

you can actually stop/reduce the DB from "knowing the WR route" and running it before/at the same time as the WR by raising QB Accuracy/WR Catching

you don't find that information useful?

if someone had a set they were happy w/ and wanted to only change one aspect and were looking for help, I hope this thread has provided it to them by helping them understand what they can tweak to get the result they want...

what does me posting a set provide others than sliders that work with how good I am? Isnt it more helpful to try and show people what they can do themselves... show them how the sliders interact w/ one another and let them use that information to create/tweak an individual set

Give a man a fish, feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish, feed him for a lifetime.