Why the narrow-sighted "AI" is a problem on Madden and NCAA

[Sigma4Life]

Quote: Originally Posted by TheFuture15

I mean we chose to re-write man coverage in full in 08 and that took over 10 weeks from one programmer to finish...and even still it doesn't feel "perfect" because we don't have the correct animation coverage to match it. None of this will come overnight...but I'd be interested in hearing what you all think are the most high priority issues...

I didn't realize this but it sounds great. What changes were made to man coverage?

[mdgoalie37]

Wow, sometimes you just get a great thread about an interesting topic that the goofs who just want to spread BS stay out of.




I was wondering how the WR option routes are coded - is the route decided by the defense called, where defenders are actually positioned on the field, or is it just random? If it is done anyway other than random, can that logic be used on the defencsive side? For a CB covering the flat in a Cover 2, can he think, basically "well, there is no one within a 20 yard radius of me, I should drop deeper, or towards the middle, or towards the nearest receiver."

My bigest concern with these types of logic changes, though, is that I want to to see mistakes - there should be blown coverages on occasion. How often have you yelled 'What are you doing!" at the TV or in the stands? Remember the Pats/Giants regular season game last year, Moss dropped the bomb that would have been a TD. The next play, Brady drops back and heaves one to Moss, who get behind the D - TD. I mean you are thinking 'why wasn't he octo-covered on that play?' The ratings need to be well done and really mean something. I mean, CBs don't get the nickname 'Toast' for no reason.

[rhombic21]

Quote: Originally Posted by TheFuture15

but I'd be interested in hearing what you all think are the most high priority issues...

Obviously you've been beaten up about this pretty badly, but I definitely think line play, on both sides, and zone coverage are the two biggest priorities right now.

[mdgoalie37]

Quote: Originally Posted by rhombic21

Obviously you've been beaten up about this pretty badly, but I definitely think line play, on both sides, and zone coverage are the two biggest priorities right now.

I agree, though we will probably need a week or 2 with 09 to really answer the questions as to what we think the priority is.

[rhombic21]

Quote: Originally Posted by mdgoalie37

My bigest concern with these types og logic changes, though, is that I want to to see mistakes - there should be blown coverages on occasion. How often have you yelled 'What are you doing!" at the TV or in the stands? Remember the Pats/Giants regular season game last year, Moss dropped the bomb that would have been a TD. The next play, Brady drops back and heaves one to Moss, who get behind the D - TD. I mean you are thinking 'why wasn't he octo-covered on that play?' The ratings need to be well done and really mean something. I mean, CBs don't get the nickname 'Toast' for no reason.

Exactly, I think that would add a ton to the game. Right now, I feel like all players in zone coverage more or less have the same capabilities, aside from SPD and CTH. I'd love to see the game make it so that you'd have the potential to have blown assignments and busted coverages, particularly with rookie and less intelligent players, but have it be done in a way as to not happen because a certain route confuses the defensive AI universally.

[Redskins Pride]

Quote: Originally Posted by callmetaternuts

situational awareness ... On 3rd and 23, my LB should NEVER bite on playaction and my DB's shouldnt let anyone get behind them.

this right here would make the AI exponentially tougher, smarter, better.

[Redskins Pride]

Quote: Originally Posted by TheFuture15

All good points. Out of sheer curiosity (I'm not trying to deflect here), are there any other sports games out there that you all feel have best-of-breed AI? Before I joined EA I was always kind of in awe that they were able to correctly model football so well (since it's by far the most complicated sport), but as we all know as the visual fidelity increases in games, so do the expectations of every other part of the game (i.e. animation, AI, lighting, etc) I'd like to see what everyone thinks so I am not missing anything and I can research them further.

To answer your question --- I would start with Madden 2005.

I remember playing some really great games of football in that iteration. The CPU didn't just run the ball or throw short ... it mixed you up.

Maybe I'm not the best litmus test though.

[Seahawk76]

Lots of great discussion going on in this thread.

As far as priorities, I would begin with getting the offensive and defensive line play right because that's where everything begins. IMO, the line play in NCAA 09 is a mess where mediocre offensive linemen can routinely pancake even elite defensive linemen. Everything that happens on the field is deeply affected by what goes on in the trenches and if you can get the line play right it would help transform both the running game and passing game.

One quick fix: I don't know if Madden 09 does this, but in NCAA 09 the CPU almost always quick snaps making it impossible to do much in the way of making defensive adjustments. What's the point of having them if there's not enough time to use them?