Ian, I'd like to rehash the "simulation mode" argument...

[94niners]

Quote: Originally Posted by Ian_Cummings_EA

[...] Pulling defenders: Absolutely doesn't exist. When a player has control the CPU doesn't alter his input whatsoever. [...]

Well I hate to be the nay sayer on this one, but when the CPU causes my CPU controlled corner to suddenly run the wrong direction when the ball is in the air to help the CPU offense I am playing against, that's just plane lame lame lame lame LAME.

Sure, it doesnt happen when YOU control the player, but it shouldn't happen when the computer controls YOUR player either! You DO NOT SEE corners suddenly running the wrong direction when the ball is in the air in the NFL. You DON'T.

And this REALLY DOES exist in the game, because I have seen it. Just because I am not controlling my own defender does not mean that that defender should not behave like a real player, does it?

[jaiy360]

I've have always seen madden as a sim game and I don't think there should be a sim level because All-Madden is already the most realistic setting, especially in user v user games. I think adding a setting b/w all-pro and all-madden would be misleading because it wouldn't be more realistic unless the game is tuned so that all-madden is changed to the sim setting, which would make the new all-madden some arcade difficulty.

[thudias]

Quote: Originally Posted by Ian_Cummings_EA

I thought we were pretty clear here. Our goal for Madden is to be a sim. We don't want any cheats, period, regardless of skill level. To respond to your specific complaints Speed Cheat: 100% doesn't exist. No speed ratings are altered through skill levels. Only awareness and play recognition (which is reaction time) CPU Robo QB: Tuning problem in 09 - not a deliberate 'cheat'. Definitely being addressed in 10. Pulling defenders: Absolutely doesn't exist. When a player has control the CPU doesn't alter his input whatsoever. Zombie blockers: Doesn't exist - no logic whatsoever to change blocking AI based on score difference QB speed: Hasn't existed since Madden 04. On a side note, do you think scrambling QB's haven't been powerful enough in the past? Do you want to make them more powerful? Just wondering on this one... Zero momentum: Not sure how this is a 'cheat', because the user controlled player has the exact same physics model that the CPU one does. This seems like just your complaint with how the players feel (which I agree with) Touch tackling: Yep, suction...known (and oft-discussed) tuning problem in 09. Definitely being addressed in 10.

Yeah for no more speed cheats.

[alsolidus]

I must agree here with the OP on this. Though EA intends on this product to be a Simulation experience of the sport. The broken mechanics of the game keeps it from attaining the goal they have set for themselves.

Though at its heart it may be a Simulation of the sport but players themselves are playing it in an arcade style. Now EA can't make you play a certain way which I agree with, but I believe what the OP was trying to get across is the option to play that way should not be so effective.

I hate to reference 2ksports here, but going for it on fourth downs the defense got a huge boost so if I knew you were running and I picked a run defense then 8 out of 10 that play was stuffed maybe look into that. (QB sneak and fullback dive anyone).

If I could get Ian to answer 1 question for me is how come users have the ability to drop back 25 yards and throw an accurate 60 yard pass? This has yet to be addressed in a Madden football game and though its not an intended function the capability is there which is what I believe the OP is purposing.
__________________________________________________ _______________

Just read the Simulation Blog and I must say wow hell of a job Ian this is the kinds of stuff that I go to work talking about to co-workers. I can't wait to see the video for the QB dropping back 30 yards throwing a 50 yard Out hell only 5 QBs in the league can make that pass accurately let alone dropping back 30 yards. Great Job you've gotten a new fan.

[Cnada]

Personally Ian i think that Scrambling is not hugely but is not powerful enough. At the moment i find it very hard to scramble outside the pocket for first down.
I think quicker qbs need to be easier to spot closer to madden 06.
How cool would a thirs person run for the first down look for 10.

btw i think bring back the atmosphere like the heartbeat on fieldgoals to win the game...when fg's werent automatic like now (accurary means nothing and no skills involved with distance)

[rhombic21]

I agree with Ian's approach here. Just to argue the flipside though. What we have always been told was that there were some things where "sim" wasn't fun. That the non-hardcore community didn't want things like the vision cone, or wouldn't like to play a game where mediocre QBs struggled to complete passes. In NCAA we get told that casual gamers don't want to struggle on offense. And the implication is that because the game has to be fun for casual gamers in order to sell well commercially, that there would be some things that would simply not ever be possible to address properly.

So I think the argument isn't necessarily for a "sim" versus "arcade" mode. I think the better argument is that the game should probably add some ability for people to customize the experience so that they can get what they want out of it. So this means that some features might be developed that casual fans wouldn't necessarily want, but that they could be incorporated such that they could be turned off or modified by people that aren't advanced/hardcore enough in order to enjoy them. A lot of times this comes back to adding more sliders and more on/off switches.

I don't think that the game is currently at a place where those things need to be happening on a massive scale, but I think the point is that as the game progresses and we get more and more of these "major" issues (like WR/DB interactions and OL/DL) addressed, then it would be nice to eventually see the game shift more towards allowing people to customize the game to make it as hardcore or casual as they want it to be.

I would also like to see the game include more tools for users to create an experience of their own. From things like custom playbooks, to the ability to re-create old league divisions with old-school uniforms and rules, and things of that nature. Even look at something like NCAA's custom stadium sounds feature, which allows people to make customization to their audio experiences.

Take a look at some of the really cool community things that happened in the PC community, where people were making all kinds of neat and interesting mods to the game. It would be cool if we could get to a point where the console version would simply give us the tools necessary to make those kinds of changes. I think that would be a HUGE thing for the community.

[Ian_Cummings]

Quote: Originally Posted by rhombic21

What we have always been told was that there were some things where "sim" wasn't fun. That the non-hardcore community didn't want things like the vision cone, or wouldn't like to play a game where mediocre QBs struggled to complete passes. In NCAA we get told that casual gamers don't want to struggle on offense. And the implication is that because the game has to be fun for casual gamers in order to sell well commercially, that there would be some things that would simply not ever be possible to address properly.

I think it is pretty well known that a non-hardcore guy (lets call him Joe Casual NFL Fan) wants to have fun on offense, and wants his passes to be on the money. So, for pro-mode we can just compress the scale of the ratings (a la what I showed in the last blog with speed), and for rookie mode, maybe we can just make passes basically perfect. Penalties are another good example. Joe Fan would most likely hate a game of Madden that had realistic numbers of penalties. But making those percentages go up with the skill levels (and having sliders to mess with on your own) makes good sense I would think.

Those are basically no-brainers to me...and I believe that's the approach you'll see us taking as we keep making Madden...meaning the higher the skill level, the more realistic the game is.

Adding sliders for everything (and hooking them into those skill levels as well) is a good long term approach too IMO.

All-Pro is going to always be the level we want "extremely close" realism since its the default online mode and used for the typical competitive Madden gamer. Then All-Madden I would say is the uber-realism level. Kinda like in shooters where on the highest difficulty one shot kills you - that's for the realism nuts and that's kinda where I would hope All-Madden would be eventually.

[SageInfinite]

Quote: Originally Posted by Ian_Cummings_EA

I think it is pretty well known that a non-hardcore guy (lets call him Joe Casual NFL Fan) wants to have fun on offense, and wants his passes to be on the money. So, for pro-mode we can just compress the scale of the ratings (a la what I showed in the last blog with speed), and for rookie mode, maybe we can just make passes basically perfect. Penalties are another good example. Joe Fan would most likely hate a game of Madden that had realistic numbers of penalties. But making those percentages go up with the skill levels (and having sliders to mess with on your own) makes good sense I would think. Those are basically no-brainers to me...and I believe that's the approach you'll see us taking as we keep making Madden...meaning the higher the skill level, the more realistic the game is. Adding sliders for everything (and hooking them into those skill levels as well) is a good long term approach too IMO. All-Pro is going to always be the level we want "extremely close" realism since its the default online mode and used for the typical competitive Madden gamer. Then All-Madden I would say is the uber-realism level. Kinda like in shooters where on the highest difficulty one shot kills you - that's for the realism nuts and that's kinda where I would hope All-Madden would be eventually.

Nice post.