Ian, I'd like to rehash the "simulation mode" argument...

[rhombic21]

Quote: Originally Posted by Ian_Cummings_EA

All-Pro is going to always be the level we want "extremely close" realism since its the default online mode and used for the typical competitive Madden gamer. Then All-Madden I would say is the uber-realism level. Kinda like in shooters where on the highest difficulty one shot kills you - that's for the realism nuts and that's kinda where I would hope All-Madden would be eventually.

I have a question related to this issue. Are you guys required to make All-Pro the default mode for online, or could you choose to make it All-Madden instead? I have a theory (albeit with no empirical evidence to support it) that most people who play online, particularly those who play primarily online, would fall into the "hardcore" category. And so it would seem to make sense to me to make the online mode catered to that kind of crowd.

Don't a lot of in-person Madden tournaments use All-Madden as the difficulty setting? In my experience, that just seems to be the skill level that most people who primarily use the game for HUM-HUM gameplay seem to prefer. I could be wrong though.

Would it be possible to set up two types of ranked games, perhaps each with their own ranking system/ladder: one using All-Pro (with default sliders and 5 min quarters), and the other using All-Madden (with default sliders and 5 min quarters)?

[rhombic21]

Related to this topic, I would like to quote a post that I made at UCS directed at Greg for NCAA, but I would be interested in hearing your thoughts about it as it relates to Madden.

Quote:

Greg, I know that in the past some people have talked about the idea of having 2 separate games for arcade and sim style play. One thing that I was wondering about was if EA would consider creating 2 sets of default sliders -- one for regular style, and one for sim style. Then in online mode, you could have 2 types of ranked games, sim style and regular style. You could even then continue to tweak the sliders for the "sim" games throughout the year when patches come out, etc...Then you just have 2 sets of leaderboards. One of the problems with online play is that there's really no ability to use sliders in order to make the game play more "sim", unless you join an online dynasty. Some people would prefer to play a sim style game online, but not necessarily in a dynasty. Short of creating a separate game completely, it seems to me that utilizing sliders via different types of ranked games would allow you to at least make the game appealing to both hardcore and casual consumers. So, hypothetically, if you had this feature in the game this year, here are some examples of things that you could include in the "sim" style games: - Madden's passer icons and THA penalties for throwing from way behind the LOS - Perhaps some sort of "fair play" settings (restrict when you can go for it, etc...) - Slider adjustments to increase the effectiveness of the pass rush - Slider adjustments to decrease QB throwing accuracy - Slider adjustments to improve defensive awareness - Slider adjustments to reduce the length of field goals I don't know a lot about programming, but there are ZERO things in that set that the game doesn't already include (except for the Madden icon things, but that seems like it would be relatively easy to bring over), so this seems like it would be a pretty low resource feature to implement. Somebody would just have to create a separate online mode, and then set up separate online leaderboards. And then the gameplay team would have to create the actual sliders (perhaps with some input from the community). Seems like it would be a reasonable thing to include, but could have a huge impact on the ability of the hardcore community to enjoy the game online. Note: It's important to have these types of "sim" features available in RANKED games. If you only make them available in unranked games, then it's hard to track your record, and people end up just quitting the game when they start to lose. By having a RANKED system specifically for sim games, you create an ability for people to have the same kind of competition and incentives that exist under the current structure.

The point is that invariably, despite the team's efforts to make the game as realistic as they can, there are some areas where the hardcore community almost always makes slider adjustments. For offline mode, this is great and can greatly enhance the experience. For NCAA last year, which had online dynasties where people could use custom sliders, this allowed a lot of people to enjoy online games that were more geared towards sim type styles, and which helped to balance out some of the problems with the AI that were evident in the default slider sets.

But for online play, we are basically stuck with the sliders that the game comes shipped with. It would be interesting to see some sort of setup where people could use "sim" sliders (which the team could adjust based on feedback from the community) that were geared more towards the "sim" or "hardcore" type of players that make up forums like OS and UCS.

[Vikes1]

On the topic of possible cpu cheating, I'd like to share an ongoing personal experience....

In my franchise, I'm currently enjoying an 11 game losing streak. I play on All-Madden level and use the "Ask Madden" feature on offense. I use that feature because even as poor at the sticks as I am...when I played normally, my winning percentage was unrealistically high. [no adaptive AI] Nine of those eleven loses came as a result of the cpu having the ball last, anywhere between :30 and 1:30 remaining. What was even more reveling was the fact that whatever the cpu needed for the win...it got. If I lead by 4-6 it got the TD. If I lead by 1-2...you guessed it...field goal. The other two loses were me getting blown out.

Of course Madden '09' is hardly the only football game I've experienced this type of thing. Don't get me wrong...I'm don't mean to whine about the losing. If I hated losing that badly, I wouldn't be using the setup I am. But the clear feeling I get is...I might as well just set my controller down and let the cpu do it's thing. No way I'm stopping it. It just sucks to feel as though the result was already decided before the clock turned 0:00.

Just thought I'd share.

[TheWatcher]

We had a discussion back in December I think, where I talked about having sim and arcade sliders, where you pull more to the left and get an arcade feel with loose controls and no real account to physics, and when you pull to the right you get Sim controls that are tighter and held down to realistic momentum and such.

I like the idea of having sliders that adjust these things instead of having coverall modes. Being able to teak within each difficulty setting isn't bad either.

My dream scenario in terms of difficulty settings, would be a situation where I'd have a slider for each part so I could set each part of the game at different levels and be told what the level is as I'm editing it. Like, I could set CPU run-defense to All-Pro, but have CPU pass-defense at All-Madden, and so on, and then it would show me what my overall falls into (Rookie, Pro, All-Pro, All-Madden). I guess it would be similar to what Madden IQ does, except we'd actually have the ability to edit all the sliders.

[stux]

First off I want to say sliders are the way to go to make the game appeal to everyone. The more sliders the better period.

IAN, they way you guys are talking about realism I am guessing injuries sliders are back? I am going to keep asking until I get an answer !

It drives me nuts in 09 that I can play and entire season and never get anyone injured for more then the game I am playing. Are injuries in 09 tied somehow to skill level? I play with custom sliders so I have no idea if i would be Pro, All Pro, or All madden. I use the hardcare setting also if that matters.

IAN, I think to solve this problem people are saying about people going for it on forth or playing the same plays to often and succeeding you need some logic that allows the Defense to anticipate it if you are saying using a curls on 3 downs over some percentage say 35% of the time for example. This logic could have a simple ON/OFF option for people that want to call the same plays over and over OR go for it on 4th down. It is unrealistic that you can call the same pattern curl route on 3rd and less then 8 to the same WR and make it about 70% of the time. Myself, what I do it allow Madden to pick my plays to make sure I am not taking advantage of certain plays or situations. I will add on that topic sometimes Madden picks the same 5 plays over and over and doesn't use the entire playbook.

Not that it doesn't happen in the pros if an offense's timing is off they do sometimes try and complete short passes and certain runs to get into timing. I have seen the Bears never gets past about 10 plays becuase there timing just not got off the ground. There offense player called said in a post game once that they call certain high percentage plays to get into rythm before delving deaper into the playbook. But if they are having to many 3 and outs they never get that far into there gameplan and stick to the high percentage plays mostly to try and get into rythm.

To whom ever said that CBs don't run the wrong way while the ball is in the air much not watch to much football. There are CBs out there that focus on the the WR and other part of the field. The can get burned into covering the wrong guy if the film they have been studying suggest his guy isn't going to get thrown to and another uncovered target (say a TE) is wide open and is going to get thrown to. In this senario he isn't watch the QB (THE BALL) but instead looking between his current guy (probably a WR) and another open one (say a TE). He may not see the ball in the air going to his guy and start heading to cover the wide open TE.

This happens a lot cover 2 where the CB releases his WR expecting help from one of the safeties. He may start out covering the WR but switch to the flat or short pass zone coverage area. Now if the safety bit on a play actions pass the WR would be WIDE open. That is the way the cover two zone converage works between the CB and safety a lot of the time. Now I am not saying that the CB doesn't look at the QB to see if the ball is or has been thrown BUT I have seen it where they don't and the ball was in the air leaving thier man wide open after they realease him.

[dave374]

The more Ian writes, the more hopeful I get.

I doubt I'll ever have the man-crush Adembroski has () but it's getting darned close.

[stux]

Quote: Originally Posted by dave374

The more Ian writes, the more hopeful I get. I doubt I'll ever have the man-crush Adembroski has () but it's getting darned close.

I agree and LOL.

[SageInfinite]

Quote: Originally Posted by dave374

The more Ian writes, the more hopeful I get. I doubt I'll ever have the man-crush Adembroski has () but it's getting darned close.

Ian has definitely made me look forward to Madden info as well.