A little perspective on graphics for you sock stripe people...

[californ14]

Quote: Originally Posted by shotgun styles

This is an exceptionally weak point because no one is saying that uniforms don't matter. We're saying that graphics are taking a back seat to gameplay and that we've had nearly TEN YEARS of poor gameplay. And to go with the ban threat? Even if you pull the trigger it only makes your position look weaker. Respect must be earned, and can't be taken at the barrel of a gun. The way to earn respect is to be right on the facts, not to intimidate when reason fails you. I have personally spent at least $500 of my own money on Madden games. I'm not anti-EA by any means. EA has it's priorities out of whack. That's not an attack, that's an objective assessment of the facts. They have produced very pretty but substandard games for this entire console cycle and almost everyone on this board will agree with that. Ask yourself these two questions: 1) 8 iterations of Madden on current gen, do any of them PLAY substantially better than 2005 (last gen)? 2) Do any of them have as many WORKING gameplay features? If the answer to either or both of those questions is "no", then it's time to concede our point here.

There is no point to conceded....Working on uniforms is not hindering game play advancement....You seem to be stuck on the idea that game play is all or nothing....

You cannot win a game of opinions...Hell my opinion is we didn't need an "Owner mode" in place and EA Tiburon should have worked on OL/DL interactions and other game play features such as defensive logic..They did focus on running, which is what I refer over passing, and is just my opinion that they appear to have made strides forward....

I am not sure about anyone else, but I have no idea how much can be adjusted with game play AI logic when you have a set CPU speed and limited RAM of about 512mb's....That hinders game play fixes a good bit; also reusing old code that has been touched by any number of developers and programmers cannot be beneficial to game play; then we also have with each new group of people working on madden, different ideas of where the game should go. With uniforms you have 2 ways to go, right or wrong....

Expecting uniforms to be spot on and pointing out flaws and asking for fixes is not hurting the forward progress of game play advancement....

what we could say is, people posting about how our uniform demands are petty compared to game play opinions, are wasting time in here when they could be building better arguments for game play improvements in the game play threads...

Also consider that at this time, for current gen madden, the game play additions from M12 have already been made; what they are probably doing now is fine tuning - thus a great time to touch up the uniforms and get them fine tuned also....

Here is another issue to deal with - For the most part, everyone in this forum wants to see better game play...Out of all the people who play madden, those million or so players, we're a very small group of people who even gather to talk about what needs to be done with game play...Thus the majority of people, we shall assume, think the game play is good enough to not even bother, and thus they would probably tell us, including you, to stop crying over game play....

So maybe it is in the best interest of everyone if we stopped fighting over what should take priority and just talk of ALL the ways the game could be improved??

[PVarck31]

Quote: Originally Posted by shotgun styles

This is an exceptionally weak point because no one is saying that uniforms don't matter. We're saying that graphics are taking a back seat to gameplay and that we've had nearly TEN YEARS of poor gameplay. And to go with the ban threat? Even if you pull the trigger it only makes your position look weaker. Respect must be earned, and can't be taken at the barrel of a gun. The way to earn respect is to be right on the facts, not to intimidate when reason fails you. I have personally spent at least $500 of my own money on Madden games. I'm not anti-EA by any means. EA has it's priorities out of whack. That's not an attack, that's an objective assessment of the facts. They have produced very pretty but substandard games for this entire console cycle and almost everyone on this board will agree with that. Ask yourself these two questions: 1) 8 iterations of Madden on current gen, do any of them PLAY substantially better than 2005 (last gen)? 2) Do any of them have as many WORKING gameplay features? If the answer to either or both of those questions is "no", then it's time to concede our point here.

All I tried to do is let people know that the equipment people have every right to be frustrated. I know gameplay hasn't been great. Also gameplay and art are two different departments. Its not this or that. So I am not going to concede anything.

As far as threatening to ban, That is because people can't seem to discuss this without resorting to name calling or trolling. That is what moderators do.

And if you wanna call me out when it comes to respect, I have been here for our over 10 years and a mod for 6. I think most people around here respect me.

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S4

[shotgun styles]

Quote: Originally Posted by californ14

Here is another issue to deal with - For the most part, everyone in this forum wants to see better game play...Out of all the people who play madden, those million or so players, we're a very small group of people who even gather to talk about what needs to be done with game play...Thus the majority of people, we shall assume, think the game play is good enough to not even bother, and thus they would probably tell us, including you, to stop crying over game play....

This is a really interesting point. We'll ignore the fact that most of America doesn't even know this forum exists, or that it has connections to EA.

Instead lets assume your point is salient, and accept it at face value. Are you trying to say that EA is pandering to the masses with great, although uniform inaccurate, graphics? That perhaps game improvement takes a back seat to mass sales?

Because if you said that you'd be close to where we are. Pickup-and-play is killing gameplay. I've said for years that we need two games: one for the masses (pickup-and-play) and a strategic version that's totally customizable (100% sim oriented). Everybody wins. The Uniform Nazis would be able to customize/correct the uniforms to their heart's content, and the sim guys would be able to adjust the AI, design plays, and control every aspect of their strategy. EA gets it's watered down easy-to-play game for 12 year olds. win win win

[californ14]

Quote: Originally Posted by shotgun styles

This is a really interesting point. We'll ignore the fact that most of America doesn't even know this forum exists, or that it has connections to EA. Instead lets assume your point is salient, and accept it at face value. Are you trying to say that EA is pandering to the masses with great, although uniform inaccurate, graphics? That perhaps game improvement takes a back seat to mass sales? Because if you said that you'd be close to where we are. Pickup-and-play is killing gameplay. I've said for years that we need two games: one for the masses (pickup-and-play) and a strategic version that's totally customizable (100% sim oriented). Everybody wins. The Uniform Nazis would be able to customize/correct the uniforms to their heart's content, and the sim guys would be able to adjust the AI, design plays, and control every aspect of their strategy. EA gets it's watered down easy-to-play game for 12 year olds. win win win

Taking each point as they are presented:

There are over 300 million people in America today. M13 sold about 1.6 million copies in the first week in America and ~99 million total since it came into existence in 1988; I believe it is safe to say most of America does not know of this forum and that fact has no bearing whatsoever....I am willing to bet that most of those who own Madden have internet and know how to google something like, "madden game forum," which would lead them to any number of forums where people are discussing the game like we do here. If they choose to, because they were unhappy with something, they could voice their opinion.

Madden sales numbers: http://vgsales.wikia.com/wiki/Madden_NFL

Could be that Head Coach(HC) was the Sim attempt and failed in EA's eyes for some reason....That was a huge blow as IMO HC had great potential. I agree that "pickup and play" is killing game play.

Seems you're trying to win a battle of opinions, which cannot be done. If you do not like "uniform error" threads then come join us in the "game play needs work" threads...You will find a number of my posts on the useless player ratings, for one, and many other great ideas to improve game play, along with loads of criticisms and accolades on general game play.

[ForUntoOblivionSoar∞]

Quote: Originally Posted by MrSerendipity

Seems a little abrasive. I'd tone it down a little bit if you actually want to get an answer.

Yeah, sorry that was the adult beverage talking .

[shotgun styles]

It seems you managed to get yourself banned, so you can respond whenever you get back.

Quote: Originally Posted by californ14

Taking each point as they are presented: There are over 300 million people in America today. M13 sold about 1.6 million copies in the first week in America and ~99 million total since it came into existence in 1988; I believe it is safe to say most of America does not know of this forum and that fact has no bearing whatsoever....I am willing to bet that most of those who own Madden have internet and know how to google something like, "madden game forum," which would lead them to any number of forums where people are discussing the game like we do here. If they choose to, because they were unhappy with something, they could voice their opinion.

The point is, there are alot of people out there who feel as we do that aren't necessarily on this board. I know tons of Madden gamers, most of them are bulletin board junkies. Some can barely type at all.

Quote: Originally Posted by californ14

Madden sales numbers: http://vgsales.wikia.com/wiki/Madden_NFL Could be that Head Coach(HC) was the Sim attempt and failed in EA's eyes for some reason....That was a huge blow as IMO HC had great potential. I agree that "pickup and play" is killing game play.

HC was garbage. It was a half baked attempt to make Madden without gameplay at all. It's only value was the play creation tool which was HORRIBLE. Again, previous gen (ps2) had a fully functional play editor with custom routes. How do you have LESS working gameplay features in the newest generation? You still haven't addressed that issue. We have better graphics but less game than we did 10 years ago.

Quote: Originally Posted by californ14

Seems you're trying to win a battle of opinions, which cannot be done. If you do not like "uniform error" threads then come join us in the "game play needs work" threads...You will find a number of my posts on the useless player ratings, for one, and many other great ideas to improve game play, along with loads of criticisms and accolades on general game play.

I'm not trying to win anything. I'm making the point, and having to repeat it because you're not hearing it. The priority towards better graphics, the massive resources thrown at reflecting eyeballs is driving gameplay development out of the picture. Madden 2005 is a better and more complete game than Madden 13. How can that be? No game in this console generation has been as good as the Maddens of the consoles that preceded them. That should tell you that the priorities are off somewhere.

[infemous]

Quote: Originally Posted by shotgun styles

It seems you managed to get yourself banned, so you can respond whenever you get back. I have no idea why but Californi4 being banned is really surprising. I hope he is brought back coz I definitely do not see him being half as abrasive as other posters in here. I'm not trying to win anything. I'm making the point, and having to repeat it because you're not hearing it. The priority towards better graphics, the massive resources thrown at reflecting eyeballs is driving gameplay development out of the picture. Madden 2005 is a better and more complete game than Madden 13. How can that be? No game in this console generation has been as good as the Maddens of the consoles that preceded them. That should tell you that the priorities are off somewhere.

You're wrong. If there was a 'priority' for better graphics Madden would look MUCH better than it does.

EA Tiburon's laziness affects EVERY element of Madden, from gameplay to presentation, from features to graphics, from physics to customisation.

You're barking up the wrong tree here.

EVERYONE wants a better Madden game, even if they don't know it.

We ALL deserve a game that plays about 9999999999 times better, but we also deserve a game that has accurate uniforms, rosters etc.

Its done in other games, so there is no excuse for EA for not making a better playing, graphically engaging and feature laden game.

Stop giving them the semi-excuse of audiences diverting resources. We all know that is complete bull and if you believe that you're defeating your own point man.