pro tak vs backbreaker takle system

[leke4bears]

Quote: Originally Posted by Glorious Arc

Not as an insult to the OP, but backbreaker tackle system is potentially pro-tac on steroids. BB could potential have 2,3,4,5+ tackle system. We do not know if they have offensive players pushing the pile but theoretically speaking it may be possible in BB if the programing was added for it and it could potentially look and feel more realisitc because of euphoria. Again, this is only a best case thought prosess and with as little video coverage BB has we really cant compare the two in videos. Also, it would be hard to figure out which feature is better just from watching it. Personally, I dislike pre-canned animations and I am in favor of a euphoria-like tackle and move system.

pause at 59 sec that look like gang takle
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F95Z2wkiUNs

[Briankbl]

Quote: Originally Posted by Ian_Cummings_EA

There is no "struggling" is my point...as soon as the Euphoria system takes over and the players are in their "realtime tackle animations", their legs go dead and they follow through with the previous physics they had. There's not going to be any instances of fighting (unless they break their 'no canned tackles' mantra and use mocap). Here's some examples from the same exact technology that Euphoria is built upon - it's Endorphin: The big difference is that these are actually made in a tool - meaning you can manipulate stuff, fix bugs, and iterate. When you have this stuff running in realtime it is likely much harder to fix any visual glitches.

Way to pick and choose a video to prove a point, Ian...an old vid showing unrefined tech is not "being fair". You could have picked a better video from a more finished project, like this one:



Euphoria is more than just a physics engine, much more. There is a lot more than just ragdoll effects. I will take BB's tackle system over Madden's. Here is what EA/Tiburon doesn't want to accept...this is what you get with precanned animations:



Would like to see some real feedback on this.

[TheFiasco87]

Damn, they run so beautifully in backbreaker.

[JerseySuave4]

i wouldnt want Backbreakers because every single tackle the guy is diving at the runner. I'm sorry but when i played and watched football i didnt dive like a missle at the runner everytime there was a tackle. Backbreaker is nice with the big hits and the way the guy's body reacts to being hit but that so unrealistic that every tackle the guy is diving lunging with a shoulder.

[Cusefan]

The Technology behind backbreaker would not work for Madden for one simple reason, every tackle is a highlight reel tackle. Everyone here keeps on Calling Madden to be realistic, yet the BB demos we have seen seem to be as far away as Sim as you can get. And every time a player gets tackled, why does his body go limp like he just died upon Impact?

Im gonna go with Pro Tak for Madden just because it looks realistic for the most part. Im sure it will have hiccups, but it looks good for now.

[titansftw]

Quote: Originally Posted by Briankbl

Way to pick and choose a video to prove a point, Ian...an old vid showing unrefined tech is not "being fair". You could have picked a better video from a more finished project, like this one: Euphoria is more than just a physics engine, much more. There is a lot more than just ragdoll effects. I will take BB's tackle system over Madden's. Here is what EA/Tiburon doesn't want to accept...this is what you get with precanned animations: Would like to see some real feedback on this.

There are only 2 problems here.

1.) The player models make me want to THROW UP! WHY did they chose to make such LAME player models? This game will go the way of Allpro 2k8 because the developers are idiots and are trying to avoid creating a genuine pro football simulation. WHY are people so stupid? This will kill this game, not differentiate it.

2.) That glowing ball makes me want to scratch my eyes out.


Really, its the same problem: they dont want to create a REAL pro football simulation because they think they'd be taking Madden on head on. But this is the stupidest thing ever. Because like it or not they already ARE fighting for people unsatisfied with madden. what they have chosen to do (ignore making a real football simulation so their product will be "different") is going to doom this game.



IAN- can you at least promise us that you will TRY to get in dusk games turning into night by 3rd quarter? if not this year (and why not?) at least in 11? dont know how many times we all have asked and not even received a sniff from you...

but really,when is the last time you saw a football game start at dusk and then end at dusk?

[Jimixiii]

Quote: Originally Posted by Ian_Cummings_EA

Euphoria is cool but has one fatal flaw and that is that players cannot really struggle once collisions occur. Every "tackle" is going to be a missile-style collision, unless they used canned motion capture style or tackles. My question to pose (seriously) - would you be willing to give up the fact that the ballcarrier can no longer struggle for extra yards to have physics-driven tackles?

i personally don't see a problem with the way the euphoria engine has players bounce and break off tackles from the last video posted of it. the physics of Madden right now is probably the #1 flaw that still exist right now and the pro-tak element is still kinda scary seeing how WRs can break off a 3 man tackle from non-DBs and stuff like that.

but we'll see this year what's truly better, i know i'm gonna play both games. but the engine Madden has been using so far is not good for physics and authentic player movement.

[BroMontana82]

Quote: Originally Posted by Ian_Cummings_EA

Euphoria is cool but has one fatal flaw and that is that players cannot really struggle once collisions occur. Every "tackle" is going to be a missile-style collision, unless they used canned motion capture style or tackles. My question to pose (seriously) - would you be willing to give up the fact that the ballcarrier can no longer struggle for extra yards to have physics-driven tackles?

absolutely not. while those physics and the basic concept of backbreaker look cool, i think madden's tackling has come a long way, especially from last year. pro-tak looks pretty awesome, espeially when players are fighting for yards and guys are pushing the pile. this is the first year of the technology too so it can only get better. one thing that i don't like about the physics / tackling is post-tackle where players slide around when they hit the ground, especially if it's going to be on another player. there's warping and it's like some sort of force field is between the guy going down and the field or another player around him. i'd post a clip where i saw it again in this year's E3 footage but i think you get the gist. not sure if this was addressed but i still like pro-tak and any minor things like this that aren't addressed.