Madden NFL 11 Hints From EA (IGN)

[killgod]

Quote: Originally Posted by ODogg

The disagreement is you are faulting EA for not having AI that is comparable to a human and CreatineKasey and I are saying that is not something EA should be faulted for since no games do. Could it be better? Yes. But to fault them for offline not matching online play is unrealistic since AI in general is not there yet and probably won't be for a long, long time.

Well there's perfectly acceptable GM logic seen in games like Football Manager and EHM, etc.

So yes GM logic certainly can exist on a level comparable to a human being. So to suggest that can't be done, is well, not true.


As for in-game, again the decisions made (playcalling, timeout usage, etc) can certainly be improved. I saw better usage of these concepts in Sierra's Front PAge Sports Football 95 than you see in the current Madden franchise. These concepts have been nearly UNCHANGED in a decade, you cannot deny this. It almost seems it's not even worked on, so clearly there is no improvements, but again to say that's not possible it flat out silly.

The only area you may have a point (and it really comes to knowing how the game is built, which none of us do) would be how the players play on the field. That's it. I won't comment on that because I myself don't know the inner workings of the game, but some can argue that other football games have "smarter" players on the field from simply what they see when playing.

[raz77]

Quote: Originally Posted by IGN

Another interesting factoid had to do with playcalling. Madden NFL 10 included 330 plays. The average user used 13 of them. I'm not exactly sure how they're going to get people to explore the playbook, but some sort of simplification is clearly needed."

Simplification is not needed. Add a tutorial on playcalling, beef up the instruction booklet, fix the exploits & broken plays to make more strategies viable, but don't go dumbing things down yet again.

[kjcheezhead]

Wasn't adaptive AI put in place to make gamers use their whole playbook? Madden 11 is showing every sign that it just wants to bring in new/casual gamers. Most people who liked Madden 10 still felt it was just a step in the right direction and I don't see the leap from Madden 10-11 being that great right now.

[randers]

You've been shedding too much light Lu
You make'em wanna make the game right Lu
They need to fiks the flats Lu
They're bringin NFL Blitz back Lu?
They're trying to get a better game Lu
They're starting to think that arcade football is lame Lu
They're trying to stop buying Yearly poopoo **
I'll tell you what you should do (Dumb it down)

**(not that this years or last year's versions were, I love the game <3)

[KBLover]

I think it's less a case of the limitations of AI technology and more a case of EA not programming good AI. I think sports games can have AI that calls and plays a game a lot like a human can because we see humans doing it all the time.

We know how smart coaches think and smart (and not-so-smart) players play and act on the field. Program the decisions a real player would have to make into the player AI code. Program the decisions a coach has to make into the playcall AI code. Have tendencies and some randomness so it's not exactly the same all the time.

Heck, considering Madden "coaches" don't have to worry about nearly as much as real ones do in Madden 10 - it should be even simpler. Just evaluate personnel and playbook they want to run and get guys that fit together. Calculating ratings and attaching modifiers to various areas based on playbook on the AI side (for decision making purposes only) - probably a lot like how HC did it.

Don't talk to me about limits of AI tech until EA is pushing them. Funny RTS got brought up because I've played some RTS with very solid and moddable AI that I've created AI players for some buddies and I to play when we want to co-op vs AI players (it's my "position" on our "team" - I'm to find out how to mod/create AI players if possible, and then create/mod those AI players).

When we can create and mod our own AI with a robust framework that, at it's heart, is already smart and flexible - then we can talk about EA running up against the limits of game AI.

[ODogg]

killgod - yes i was only talking about on the field play since I believe that is what EA is referring to in reference to the number of games played.

[killgod]

Quote: Originally Posted by ODogg

killgod - yes i was only talking about on the field play since I believe that is what EA is referring to in reference to the number of games played.

Well I was debating with the other guy about why people choose to play online so much over offline and there's plenty of points to look at, including the on the field play.

Unfortunately there's not much other competition for video game football (thanks to the NFL and EA) so we can only determine what's "possible" by what EA gives us. I think it's a bit close minded to think that it's not possible because EA has failed to do it.

It'll be interesting to compare individual player AI in the upcoming Backbreaker game (where the AI are given behaviours) to the current EA football. Again this could shatter the concept you suggest that it's just not possible for a "long long time" where I believe they just aren't investing enough time/resource into the right areas.

Then again, their goal is to make the most money not make the best football game, so I can't neccesarily blame them for doing what they do! Not that I like it as a consumer...

Again it's all my opinion on how they operate.

[coogrfan]

Quote: Originally Posted by CreatineKasey

76% of Madden gamers play online. There's your answer offline franchise guys. It's not a big priority to them. I remember people claiming only 5% of Madden gamers play online and junk like that despite me arguing otherwise. Online franchise and other online functions such as game balance and solid gameplay are priorities for sure.

I believe it's possible that 76% of the people who responded to EA's survey may well be mainly online gamers, but I find it very hard to believe that the % for the Madden population as a whole is anywhere near that high.