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dano · 10-09-2003, 01:24 AM

For me the 45 degree running angles make the game unplayable. when you run i tend to zig zag. is this just me? what am i doing worong? i love everything else but hate the angles. madden is not much better but seems more fluid. i also live the playmaker option to run the opposite side (no this is not switchg play option in espn).

in espn i can do a slant on every play. man or zone. i would not consider this great zone coverage. also, have you ever seen the animation where a second tier CB makes a over the shoulder one handed int. very very funny.

espn does have good passing mecanics. namely that you must set your qb and throw. no throwing off the back foot.

behavior?? are you insane? what football coach punts from the 30 yard line? the AI will punt at the 30 unless it is janakoski. i can also predicet which play the cpu will run. 2 te set =run, 1st down pass imcomplete=2nd down run, etc.

you don't need deeper playbooks in espn. all you need is 2 hard and 2 soft. then switch your line one way and the lbs the other. stops the run every time.

both games have flaws but madden is better in MY OPINION.

dano · 10-09-2003, 01:30 AM

jake, perfect post!

BlackNGold · 10-09-2003, 07:45 AM

The AI thing is the main thing that gets to me in ESPN. I love playing the game for the most part and I'm hooked on 1st Person, but that AI is crazy. Punting when the CPU is on my 30 with the wind at his back and a chance to kick the winning FG. Also the clock management. Instead of milking the clock with a lead in the 4th Q, I've noticed the CPU will call TOs and stop the clock allowing me to save mine? Things like that take away a lot of the realism.

Kanobi · 10-09-2003, 08:28 AM

Quote:

Boilerbuzz said:

Quote:

jake44np said:
I still think most espn football lovers love the game because it is something different! They are blown away by the presentation and they want espn to be the better game so they make themselves believe it is, which is fine to each him own.

And you can say the same thing about Madden fans. But it's cool that you have such insight to the motivations of so many people. I just love it people can make assumptions about other's motives. I can question Madden fans dislike for ESPN just like you question their enjoyment of ESPN:

"I think that Madden fans hate ESPN because it's different. They want to believe so badly that Madden is better so that they can justify overlooking all of it's flaws..." BLAH BLAH BLAH. Guys, state YOUR opinions and YOUR motivations, and leave it at that. It's really simple.

Here are just a few additions Madden fans can expect for Madden' gameplay and presentation next year:

*1. A shoulder charge, over the pile dive, and tighter control of the spin move where the use actually controls in which direction the spin.

*2. A new "Playmaker All-Tackling System"...Pile-On gangtackling where you no longer have to "wait your turn" to try an tackle a ballcarrier as in all the previous editions of Madden.

*3. Customizable defensive Matchups.

*4. a HUGE amount of new tackling, passing, catching and blocking animations

*5. The ability to call the defensive front seperate from the defensive coverage.

*6. The ability to call hot Blitzes.

*7. The ability to make your DBs play inside and outside technique....even do combinations where you can call bump/inside or bump/outside....or loose/inside and loose/outside

*8. Gangtackle and half sacks will be tracked statistically. For Madden 2004, according to Strauser, gantackle stats where left out because EA/Tiburon feels its all subjective on which player got there first. However, VC was able to program espnfl to know what player got there first and which player assisted. I wonder what Strauser's excuse will be next year?

*9. Vastly improved global headtracking where ALL the players turn their heads and seem somewhat aware of WTF is happening on the field instead staring straight ahead. Expect better DB/WR play where Dbs will mirror the wr and jockey for better position to make a play on the ball.

*10. Expect Improved T.V like presentation complete with a halftime recap of the first half and a weekly primetime show that recaps all of the games for that week.

*11. A Vastly deeeper Challenge System that covers basically every situation and allows the user to select from a wide variety of choices. Alos expect Madden and Michales to discuss the call.

*12. Expect deeper offensive and defensive playbooks

*13. LB with realistic Jumping ability.

14. No more Comeback AI

15. More realistic looking player Models. No more legoland player models.

16. No more Bumper Car collision detection

*17. A deeper and more challenging running game that requires more strategy and techinique to contain. Pass defenses will no longer suffice against the run...nor ill dive tackling at bad angles bring the ball carrier down. Thanks to the NEW "playMaker ALL-Tackling System" , users can pile onto the ballcarrier and ASSIST on the tackle...even knock the ballcarrier back and change their momentum....possibly preventing a key first down or a score.

*18. Attributes will actually have a meaning. A deeper attribute AI that lets the stars players play to their abilites. No longer will there be 6th string wrs rated 51 ovr that play like Randy Moss.

*19. New Attributes..****N COVERAGE, CONSISTENCY, COMPOSURE, ROUTE RUNNING and AGRESSIVENESS... Along with a few other nfl2k4 attibutes.

*20. Adpative CPU AI during franchise Mode where your cpu opponents CLEARLY adapt to your playcalling tendacies as the seasons progress...forcing you to adjust your gmeplan and make changes to your playbook.

*21. New Defensive Line Moves....RIP and CLUB. No longer do you just have the Swim and and spin moves. Next year you'll be able to also use a RIP and CLUB move to get to the quaterback. Thats not all....you will also be able to control in which direction you Rip, Club, Spin, and SWIM for a a deeper pass rush element.

*22. You won't be able to drop back for 25 yards as you can in madden 2004. Nor will you be able to complete sidearm throws around a dlinemens body and back across the field for 40+ yard passes.

23. DBs will no longer teleport to make interceptions.

*24. All "Playmaker Juke System" where you can pull of new jukes and moves using the right analog stick. This might conflict with ability to telepathically instruct your blockers on who to block...which is alreay mapped to the right analog stick when running.

25. More realistic gameplay out of the box. Madden fans will no longer have to spend allt heir time being Gameplay Paramedics. They can actually spend more time actually being able to play a realistic game on default settings.

*26. Expect alot less momentum based Physics. No longer will it take your runners years to make cuts and change direction. "Control will be Tighter than Ever before!" lol! (I can already see this as a key EA Marketing phrase)

*27. All new "PLAYMAKER FOCUS"!!!...this allows the user to CHARGE up or build up kinetic energy that allows them to either perform stronger moves when running the rock or perform more powerful tackles when bringing down those power back. Never before (in Madden's History) as such a realistic element been introduced to football-gaming.

*28. Better scaled and more realistic loooking stadiums.

29. Smarter Crowd reactions and animations. No longer will the crowd movements be Looped in an animation that looks like you just kicked the game winning field goal in the Super Bowl.

*30. Vastly improved Commentary with alot more back n Forth bewteen al and john. This year John and/or al will discuss penalties, previous plays, how a player has played specifically on previous downs, The player's year/school/ht and weight, look at his last season stats, discuss challenged calls, etc.

*31. a Vastly improved audible system that gives you 5 options which are completely editable during gameplay. Alos a new No-Huddle audibling system that openes up even moe playcalling options...making the amount audibles at your disposal vitrually limitless.

*31. The ability Tackle ballcarrier while their in the MIDDLE OF a break tackle animation. This is a solo tackle...Not a gangtackle.

"*" = already in nfl2k4 or previous edtions of nfl2k.

I'm sure EA will add these things along with a host of other gameplay/presentation elements for Madden 2005!

-------------------------------

Espn fans can expect the following additions to espn's gameplay/presentation next year----

1. More transitional animations for running that better depict change of direction.

2. Even More overall animations for blocking, passing catching and throwing.

3. Revamped QB movements and passing animations

4. Better Special teams Play.

5. Improved situational in-game AI for CPU.

6. Possibly 3-man gangtackling. Now a 3rd defender can assist on a tackle.

7. even more realistic player models and a better player customization system likely resulting in, once again, the best player models for a PS2/Xbox football game.

8. A Deeper Fatigue system

**9. IN-game Save!!

I'm sure VC will add these things along with a host of other gameplay/presentation elements for ESPNFL2k5!!!

[**] = alread in Madden 2004 or previous editions of Madden.

PrimeTime21 · 10-09-2003, 08:56 AM

the fatigue system is already the best they don't need to change that at all.

Kanobi · 10-09-2003, 08:59 AM

Quote:

PrimeTime21 said:
the fatigue system is already the best they don't need to change that at all.

WTF??!!! The Fatigue needs to be alot more apparent on the field and affect gameplay more. Visual Concepts needs to address this, man.

jake44np · 10-09-2003, 09:15 AM

I would disagree on some of the things you think they need to add to madden, you are going for a more "arcady" game and we dont need that! Examples #27 what the heck is that?kinetic energy lol!#24 jukes are fine in this game anymore and the game would be unrealistic!

Kanobi · 10-09-2003, 09:35 AM

Quote:

jake44np said:
I would disagree on some of the things you think they need to add to madden, you are going for a more "arcady" game and we dont need that! Examples #27 what the heck is that?kinetic energy lol

This statement reveals your ignorance about the Charge feature in ESPN. Its basically the difference in attempting to jump over a small stone or attempting to jump over a large boulder. You store more kinetic energy in order to explode on action and perform the harder task. Thats why you often hear the term "Explosive runner" or "Explosive Tackler"...its the amount of stored kinteic energy released when players run or collide...explosiveness. Its VERY realistic and not "arcady". Its also the main reason you see espn ballers trying to explain to newcomers (usually madden ballers) that they should Charge up when attemtping a solo tackle because this increases their chances of successfully bringing the ballcarrier down...that and using the right angle and squaring up.

Perhaps somebodyelse can explain it better to you but hopefully you kinda get the idea now.

This is a level of depth and realism that has never been achieved in football-gaming outside of the nfl2k series. The Charge was there last year but its alot more polished and deep this year and will like be even more improved next year.

As for #24 and the new jukes. You say you disagree now but Madden's run game is very limited comapred to espn's which has ALOT more the moves runner use in rea-life football. You say you diagree now but you will likely be the first to praise the addition of more jukes and running moves next year if EA were to add them.

10-09-2003, 01:24 AM	#41
dano Pro OVR: 6 Join Date: May 2003	Re: STOP THE WHINING! MADDEN IS VERY REALISTIC!!!... For me the 45 degree running angles make the game unplayable. when you run i tend to zig zag. is this just me? what am i doing worong? i love everything else but hate the angles. madden is not much better but seems more fluid. i also live the playmaker option to run the opposite side (no this is not switchg play option in espn). in espn i can do a slant on every play. man or zone. i would not consider this great zone coverage. also, have you ever seen the animation where a second tier CB makes a over the shoulder one handed int. very very funny. espn does have good passing mecanics. namely that you must set your qb and throw. no throwing off the back foot. behavior?? are you insane? what football coach punts from the 30 yard line? the AI will punt at the 30 unless it is janakoski. i can also predicet which play the cpu will run. 2 te set =run, 1st down pass imcomplete=2nd down run, etc. you don't need deeper playbooks in espn. all you need is 2 hard and 2 soft. then switch your line one way and the lbs the other. stops the run every time. both games have flaws but madden is better in MY OPINION.

10-09-2003, 01:30 AM	#42
dano Pro OVR: 6 Join Date: May 2003	Re: STOP THE WHINING! MADDEN IS VERY REALISTIC!!!... jake, perfect post!

10-09-2003, 07:45 AM	#43
BlackNGold Pro OVR: 6 Join Date: May 2003	Re: STOP THE WHINING! MADDEN IS VERY REALISTIC!!!... The AI thing is the main thing that gets to me in ESPN. I love playing the game for the most part and I'm hooked on 1st Person, but that AI is crazy. Punting when the CPU is on my 30 with the wind at his back and a chance to kick the winning FG. Also the clock management. Instead of milking the clock with a lead in the 4th Q, I've noticed the CPU will call TOs and stop the clock allowing me to save mine? Things like that take away a lot of the realism.

10-09-2003, 08:28 AM	#44
Kanobi HF Clss f '09 OVR: 14* Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 5,980 Blog Entries: 17	Re: STOP THE WHINING! MADDEN IS VERY REALISTIC!!!... Quote: *Boilerbuzz said:* Quote: *jake44np said:* I still think most espn football lovers love the game because it is something different! They are blown away by the presentation and they want espn to be the better game so they make themselves believe it is, which is fine to each him own. And you can say the same thing about Madden fans. But it's cool that you have such insight to the motivations of so many people. I just love it people can make assumptions about other's motives. I can question Madden fans dislike for ESPN just like you question their enjoyment of ESPN: "I think that Madden fans hate ESPN because it's different. They want to believe so badly that Madden is better so that they can justify overlooking all of it's flaws..." BLAH BLAH BLAH. Guys, state YOUR opinions and YOUR motivations, and leave it at that. It's really simple. Here are just a few additions Madden fans can expect for Madden' gameplay and presentation next year: 1. A shoulder charge, over the pile dive, and tighter control of the spin move where the use actually controls in which direction the spin. 2. A new "Playmaker All-Tackling System"...Pile-On gangtackling where you no longer have to "wait your turn" to try an tackle a ballcarrier as in all the previous editions of Madden. 3. Customizable defensive Matchups. 4. a HUGE amount of new tackling, passing, catching and blocking animations 5. The ability to call the defensive front seperate from the defensive coverage. 6. The ability to call hot Blitzes. 7. The ability to make your DBs play inside and outside technique....even do combinations where you can call bump/inside or bump/outside....or loose/inside and loose/outside 8. Gangtackle and half sacks will be tracked statistically. For Madden 2004, according to Strauser, gantackle stats where left out because EA/Tiburon feels its all subjective on which player got there first. However, VC was able to program espnfl to know what player got there first and which player assisted. I wonder what Strauser's excuse will be next year? 9. Vastly improved global headtracking where ALL the players turn their heads and seem somewhat aware of WTF is happening on the field instead staring straight ahead. Expect better DB/WR play where Dbs will mirror the wr and jockey for better position to make a play on the ball. 10. Expect Improved T.V like presentation complete with a halftime recap of the first half and a weekly primetime show that recaps all of the games for that week. 11. A Vastly deeeper Challenge System that covers basically every situation and allows the user to select from a wide variety of choices. Alos expect Madden and Michales to discuss the call. 12. Expect deeper offensive and defensive playbooks 13. LB with realistic Jumping ability. 14. No more Comeback AI 15. More realistic looking player Models. No more legoland player models. 16. No more Bumper Car collision detection 17. A deeper and more challenging running game that requires more strategy and techinique to contain. Pass defenses will no longer suffice against the run...nor ill dive tackling at bad angles bring the ball carrier down. Thanks to the NEW "playMaker ALL-Tackling System" , users can pile onto the ballcarrier and ASSIST on the tackle...even knock the ballcarrier back and change their momentum....possibly preventing a key first down or a score. 18. Attributes will actually have a meaning. A deeper attribute AI that lets the stars players play to their abilites. No longer will there be 6th string wrs rated 51 ovr that play like Randy Moss. 19. New Attributes..***N COVERAGE, CONSISTENCY, COMPOSURE, ROUTE RUNNING and AGRESSIVENESS... Along with a few other nfl2k4 attibutes. 20. Adpative CPU AI during franchise Mode where your cpu opponents CLEARLY adapt to your playcalling tendacies as the seasons progress...forcing you to adjust your gmeplan and make changes to your playbook. 21. New Defensive Line Moves....RIP and CLUB. No longer do you just have the Swim and and spin moves. Next year you'll be able to also use a RIP and CLUB move to get to the quaterback. Thats not all....you will also be able to control in which direction you Rip, Club, Spin, and SWIM for a a deeper pass rush element. 22. You won't be able to drop back for 25 yards as you can in madden 2004. Nor will you be able to complete sidearm throws around a dlinemens body and back across the field for 40+ yard passes. 23. DBs will no longer teleport to make interceptions. 24. All "Playmaker Juke System" where you can pull of new jukes and moves using the right analog stick. This might conflict with ability to telepathically instruct your blockers on who to block...which is alreay mapped to the right analog stick when running. 25. More realistic gameplay out of the box. Madden fans will no longer have to spend allt heir time being Gameplay Paramedics. They can actually spend more time actually being able to play a realistic game on default settings. 26. Expect alot less momentum based Physics. No longer will it take your runners years to make cuts and change direction. "Control will be Tighter than Ever before!" lol! (I can already see this as a key EA Marketing phrase) 27. All new "PLAYMAKER FOCUS"!!!...this allows the user to CHARGE up or build up kinetic energy that allows them to either perform stronger moves when running the rock or perform more powerful tackles when bringing down those power back. Never before (in Madden's History) as such a realistic element been introduced to football-gaming. 28. Better scaled and more realistic loooking stadiums. 29. Smarter Crowd reactions and animations. No longer will the crowd movements be Looped in an animation that looks like you just kicked the game winning field goal in the Super Bowl. 30. Vastly improved Commentary with alot more back n Forth bewteen al and john. This year John and/or al will discuss penalties, previous plays, how a player has played specifically on previous downs, The player's year/school/ht and weight, look at his last season stats, discuss challenged calls, etc. 31. a Vastly improved audible system that gives you 5 options which are completely editable during gameplay. Alos a new No-Huddle audibling system that openes up even moe playcalling options...making the amount audibles at your disposal vitrually limitless. 31. The ability Tackle ballcarrier while their in the MIDDLE OF a break tackle animation. This is a solo tackle...Not a gangtackle. "" = already in nfl2k4 or previous edtions of nfl2k. I'm sure EA will add these things along with a host of other gameplay/presentation elements for Madden 2005! ------------------------------- Espn fans can expect the following additions to espn's gameplay/presentation next year---- 1. More transitional animations for running that better depict change of direction. 2. Even More overall animations for blocking, passing catching and throwing. 3. Revamped QB movements and passing animations 4. Better Special teams Play. 5. Improved situational in-game AI for CPU. 6. Possibly 3-man gangtackling. Now a 3rd defender can assist on a tackle. 7. even more realistic player models and a better player customization system likely resulting in, once again, the best player models for a PS2/Xbox football game. 8. A Deeper Fatigue system 9. IN-game Save!! I'm sure VC will add these things along with a host of other gameplay/presentation elements for ESPNFL2k5!!! [] = alread in Madden 2004 or previous editions of Madden.

10-09-2003, 08:56 AM	#45
PrimeTime21 Pro OVR: 5 Join Date: Sep 2003	Re: STOP THE WHINING! MADDEN IS VERY REALISTIC!!!... the fatigue system is already the best they don't need to change that at all.

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10-09-2003, 08:59 AM	#46
Kanobi HF Clss f '09 OVR: 14* Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 5,980 Blog Entries: 17	Re: STOP THE WHINING! MADDEN IS VERY REALISTIC!!!... Quote: *PrimeTime21 said:* the fatigue system is already the best they don't need to change that at all. WTF??!!! The Fatigue needs to be alot more apparent on the field and affect gameplay more. Visual Concepts needs to address this, man.

10-09-2003, 09:15 AM	#47
jake44np Post Like a Champion! OVR: 22 Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: The Burg, Indiana Posts: 9,547	Re: STOP THE WHINING! MADDEN IS VERY REALISTIC!!!... I would disagree on some of the things you think they need to add to madden, you are going for a more "arcady" game and we dont need that! Examples #27 what the heck is that?kinetic energy lol!#24 jukes are fine in this game anymore and the game would be unrealistic!

10-09-2003, 09:35 AM	#48
Kanobi HF Clss f '09 OVR: 14* Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 5,980 Blog Entries: 17	Re: STOP THE WHINING! MADDEN IS VERY REALISTIC!!!... Quote: *jake44np said:* I would disagree on some of the things you think they need to add to madden, you are going for a more "arcady" game and we dont need that! Examples #27 what the heck is that?kinetic energy lol This statement reveals your ignorance about the Charge feature in ESPN. Its basically the difference in attempting to jump over a small stone or attempting to jump over a large boulder. You store more kinetic energy in order to explode on action and perform the harder task. Thats why you often hear the term "Explosive runner" or "Explosive Tackler"...its the amount of stored kinteic energy released when players run or collide...explosiveness. Its VERY realistic and not "arcady". Its also the main reason you see espn ballers trying to explain to newcomers (usually madden ballers) that they should Charge up when attemtping a solo tackle because this increases their chances of successfully bringing the ballcarrier down...that and using the right angle and squaring up. Perhaps somebodyelse can explain it better to you but hopefully you kinda get the idea now. This is a level of depth and realism that has never been achieved in football-gaming outside of the nfl2k series. The Charge was there last year but its alot more polished and deep this year and will like be even more improved next year. As for #24 and the new jukes. You say you disagree now but Madden's run game is very limited comapred to espn's which has ALOT more the moves runner use in rea-life football. You say you diagree now but you will likely be the first to praise the addition of more jukes and running moves next year if EA were to add them.

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STOP THE WHINING! MADDEN IS VERY REALISTIC!!!...