The 100th Season- 2012 Boston Red Sox

[areobee401]

Sounds like Bailey could miss 3-4 months with his thumb injury.

In a somewhat related note. I hate the decision of having Daniel Bard in the starting rotation. With or without Andrew Bailey being injured.

[SoxFan01605]

Sigh...and this is what you get with Bobby V as manager:

Quote:

BOSTON -- Red Sox third baseman Kevin Youkilis said Monday that he was "confused" by Bobby Valentine's remarks in a television interview on Sunday in which the manager wondered if Youkilis was as physically and emotionally invested in the game as he was in the past. Youkilis, hitting .200 with three RBIs entering Monday's game against Tampa Bay, told reporters before the 11:05 a.m. ET series finale against the Rays, "I'm more confused than anything. Everyone knows I go out and play the game as hard as I can." Valentine spoke out on WHDH TV in Boston on Sunday night: "I don't think he's as physically or emotionally into the game as he has been in the past for some reason." When Valentine said on Monday that he believed his message was taken out of context. He also said that he apologized to Youkilis. "I answered the question that, I think the question was, 'It's not Youk-like the way he's playing.' I think that was the question I answered," Valentine said. "I should have explained that his swing isn't what he wants it to be. The physical part of his swing is frustrating. Frustration leads to emotion. I haven't seen him break as many helmets as I've seen on TV. It just seemed different. "At the end of the thing, I said I don't know what the reason is because I haven't been here long enough. I don't know why his swing isn't exactly the way he wants it to be and why he wasn't throwing as many helmets. I thought it was rather innocuous. Matter of fact, it seemed like they were trying to bang him and I started out by saying how good his at-bats were that day, his two walks." Youkilis was out of Monday's lineup because of a nagging groin injury, but told Valentine he would be available to pinch-hit. Clearly, though, he disagreed with the manager. "I don't know. That's not what I see," Youkilis said. "I go out every day and play as hard as I can -- take every ground ball in the morning, take every at-bat like it's my last. I don't think my game has changed at all. I still get upset with myself. I still get mad. That's just not how I go about the game of baseball." Second baseman Dustin Pedroia came to the defense of Youkilis. "I don't know what Bobby's trying to do, but that's not the way we do things here," said Pedroia. "Maybe that stuff works in Japan." The Red Sox got off to a slow start this season, losing five of their first six games before taking the first three games of a four-game set against the Rays, scoring 31 runs in the process.

http://boston.redsox.mlb.com/news/ar...s_bos&c_id=bos


On a brighter note, there's nothing like coming home to get the offense on track and Papi is on fire to kick it off. If the team can get healthy (particularly in the OF...Yikes!), it should be another competitive season, regardless of the manager's mouth.

[Bdubb]

If any of you guys got instagram checkout #bobbyvalentine. Saw it this morning got a good laugh at the pic, I can't put it on here tho cuz of the profanity.

[areobee401]

After this past weekend of games, I'm 1000% behind Bobby Valentine. The fans at Fenway on Saturday made me embarrassed to be a Sox fan. How they can boo Bobby and once again let the players off the hook is absurd. Don't even get me started on the idiots singing Sweet Caroline this past Saturday.

I have not hated a group of players the way I hate these guys in all my years rooting for the Sox.

Valentine told management he wanted Bard in the bullpen in spring training, but management said no. Look where we are now. You give a manager a bunch of crap pitchers and this is what you get.

Pedroia with is idiotic comment telling Valentine this is not how we do it around here is exactly whats wrong with this damn team. Nothing has changed culturally with this team when the players are still running the show.

[Bdubb]

Quote: Originally Posted by areobee401

After this past weekend of games, I'm 1000% behind Bobby Valentine. The fans at Fenway on Saturday made me embarrassed to be a Sox fan. How they can boo Bobby and once again let the players off the hook is absurd. Don't even get me started on the idiots singing Sweet Caroline this past Saturday. I have not hated a group of players the way I hate these guys in all my years rooting for the Sox. Valentine told management he wanted Bard in the bullpen in spring training, but management said no. Look where we are now. You give a manager a bunch of crap pitchers and this is what you get. Pedroia with is idiotic comment telling Valentine this is not how we do it around here is exactly whats wrong with this damn team. Nothing has changed culturally with this team when the players are still running the show.

Oh yeah I'm watchin Felger and Mazz right now they hit it on the head basically saying what your saying. I'd say Bobby V brought a little heat upon himself with the Youk comment, and he has been a little shaky as a manager.

But it's the players who should be the target of the fans. Bums like the Texas tough guy Beckett still in this town? I'd agree it's the players fault that they are 4-10. I wouldn't be shocked if they brought in a new manager in to Boston and the same group of guys here would be still playing the way they have.

[SoxFan01605]

Quote: Originally Posted by areobee401

After this past weekend of games, I'm 1000% behind Bobby Valentine. The fans at Fenway on Saturday made me embarrassed to be a Sox fan. How they can boo Bobby and once again let the players off the hook is absurd. Don't even get me started on the idiots singing Sweet Caroline this past Saturday. I have not hated a group of players the way I hate these guys in all my years rooting for the Sox. Valentine told management he wanted Bard in the bullpen in spring training, but management said no. Look where we are now. You give a manager a bunch of crap pitchers and this is what you get. Pedroia with is idiotic comment telling Valentine this is not how we do it around here is exactly whats wrong with this damn team. Nothing has changed culturally with this team when the players are still running the show.

I agree the issue is with the players, but I don't think Pedroia's statement is indicative of a the same culture that you are referencing. "That's not how we do things around here" is the right attitude in that situation IMO. It definitely should have been handled better by him (i.e. in private), but the sentiment is fine by me. He stood up for a teammate. There's a reason Valentine backpedaled his way through all of that...he knows he F'd up. Again, I'm not saying Pedroia was in the right, but his "idiotic" response was to an idiotic statement by his loudmouthed manager.

I'm not blaming Bobby V for their record either BTW. The players are the issue, but I wouldn't count Pedroia among those that are. He plays his *** off. Our pitching sucks, particularly the bullpen. That's not Bobby V's fault either, I agree, but that's also not a cultural problem...it's a performance problem. As you said...crap pitchers. Lester is the only one who can be counted on from year to year and he'll still throw up his fair share of clunkers.

Out of curiosity, which players do you hate? Personally, there's a few I don't care for, but I think the culture thing, while certainly an issue to an extent, has been vastly overblown. Most of their bad play this year (and down the stretch last year) can be attributed to tangible things (pitching, depth issues, injuries, etc).

[areobee401]

Hate was probably too strong of a word. What I should have said was that I dislike the group as a whole. Lack of accountability and the sense of entitlement the group portrays irritates me.

Don't get me wrong. I understand and respect the effort Pedroia puts forth on the field, but that statement to me, gives great insight into the mindset of this team. The way things were run obviously no longer work. The whole point of bringing in Bobby V. was to shake things up. Ownership and Ben Cherington knew exactly what they were getting when they hired him. It was a slap in the face to Bobby for them to come to Youkilis's defense.

Another example of the mindset of this team being wrong. Daniel Bard not wanting to go back into the bullpen. Him being in the bullpen is exactly what this team needs. Being a 3rd or 4th year player who has done nothing but pitch relief. Who is he to say things like "I don't want to pitch consecutive days in relief". He should want to do what's best to help the team. The supposed leaders in the club house should put pressure on him to do that.

The players are still in control of this team. Yes the quality of play on the field has been less than perfect. Yes the quality of talent isn't what it's been in the past. Yes injuries have been an issue so far. But I feel a change of culture in the clubhouse would help a great deal.

The bottom line is when talent is underachieving it's because of an attitude issue.

[SoxFan01605]

I think you might be reading too much into it. The "that's not how we do things here" wasn't about Boston, it was a more generalized statement (Pedroia even made the direct comparison between Japanese baseball and MLB). In other words, he was saying maybe that would work to drive someone in Japan, but not here. I don't think it was indicative of a Red Sox cultural statement at all (I also think it was purely a statement out of anger/frustration in response to his friend getting unnecessarily tagged by their manager-even more reason not to read too much into it).

As wrong as he was, Valentine was more wrong, as he instigated the entire issue. He called out his player through the media and only backtracked when Youk confronted him and it all blew up in Bobby's face. This is what Bobby V. does...has always done. Yes, they ownership knew what they were getting into (and they should be held accountable for making what is, IMO, at best a questionable hiring choice), but letting a manger run wild is no more beneficial than letting players do it. Management was right to defend Youk, as the guy did nothing wrong there. Regardless of the perceived culture in the clubhouse, questioning a player's motivation in the media is never a good move. Again, as I said before, Pedroia wasn't fully in the right either, but his reaction is at least understandable given the circumstances IMO. In either case, I don't think that situation speaks too much to the team's current play though.

As for entitlement, I think that's more perception than reality in the examples you give. There is entitlement with some players, it seems, but losing has a way of amplifying everything and the media is running wild. Bard never said he wouldn't do what's best for the team. He was told he'd get a shot at starting and mentioned his preference to continue to do so when asked. There's nothing wrong with that. He didn't pitch a fit or hold a press conference to cry injustice, he stated a preference. He also said he was willing to help out as he can and was right there in the pen when they needed him. I don't recall hearing any ultimatums or anything.

Anyway, I can mostly agree with your overall sentiment, but I just don't agree with your examples. I think some solid players and guys who have not shown to be problems are getting caught in the wash here. And while I certainly don't blame him for their record, I'm also not going to pretend Bobby Valentine has done anything recognizably positive for the team either. There's a difference between "shaking things up" and creating more problems. The entire team would be best served by everyone shutting up and trying to play some good ball.

As for their current play, I still think it's more on-the-field than anything. We disagree on that, it seems, but that's fine. In either case, I hope they can sort it out.