Refund Denials for Digital Buyers

[eaw913]

Quote: Originally Posted by HokieB

I think it ultimately comes down to who processes your request. No harm in trying over and over again until you get the right person.

This is extremely true. If mine was denied I would just call again until it was approved. Guess I got lucky on my first try.

And also in regards to nuckles post, that is true as well. They give refunds where they think it's deemed necessary. The whole "one time gesture" thing is a standard email sent out. I've been approved for a ton of refunds, but only when I actually feel it was necessary. Times when it is my mistake I eat the money. This situation with MLB 14 I felt was ridiculous and apparently so did the agent I spoke with who granted my refund.

[jdeszcz]

Sorry, didn't mean to offend in my initial post. My only point was digital downloads on PSN for the PS4 have had issues from day one...time to download, install, etc...sure you might have been able buy the game and begin downloading at 12:01AM, but by the time it was ready to be played history would say you probably could've waited and bought a copy at 10AM and been playing roughly around the same time. I've never been a midnight release guy, have to have it first thing, sure I buy day one, but it has never been that compulsive of an issue for me. Until I know that a game title (day one releases) can be bought and downloaded as easily as complete record collections on iTunes I'll stick with hard copies.

[boxers]

Quote: Originally Posted by Drakar

Not for digital distribution, the minute you pay, the sale is final. Only in rare cases where the final product provided to you is actually not working. This is not the case for MLB The Show. The game is working fine. It was only distributed late. So give digital buyer 30,000 Stub points for their trouble.

I'm not sure where your authority is for this at common law but it is entirely possible. That being said, from what I understand of contract law, delivery and conditions of contracts are critical to the validity of a contract. It is hard to imagine that by pre-ordering a digital download to which you have no access to the files (in order words, no access to the product or service that was bargained for), you would lose your entitlement to a refund. Until files are on my PS4, the product has not been delivered and there has, therefore, been no performance of the terms of the contract. In the end, all you have is an agreement to agree.

note: if it was a pre-order of a physical item, that's another story. Because in theory, physical items are limited to certain number of quantities and by pre-order you are receiving consideration in the form of a guaranteed copy. Digital copies are limitless and thus the consideration that exists with physical pre-orders no longer applies.

[HokieB]

Quote: Originally Posted by jdeszcz

Sorry, didn't mean to offend in my initial post. My only point was digital downloads on PSN for the PS4 have had issues from day one...time to download, install, etc...sure you might have been able buy the game and begin downloading at 12:01AM, but by the time it was ready to be played history would say you probably could've waited and bought a copy at 10AM and been playing roughly around the same time. I've never been a midnight release guy, have to have it first thing, sure I buy day one, but it has never been that compulsive of an issue for me. Until I know that a game title (day one releases) can be bought and downloaded as easily as complete record collections on iTunes I'll stick with hard copies.

PSN issues for the PS4 just aren't common knowledge. Frankly, I'm moving forward assuming this is a very isolated issue and will likely buy digital again.

[Sublime12089]

Quote: Originally Posted by boxers

From what I have read of US law (mostly limited to sports law cases), Canada's common law system is much more heavily governed by statute. In Ontario, there are quite a few consumer protection oriented statutes. In addition, Canadian courts will often look at the expectations of the parties at the time of making the contract. In this case, Sony's stance is "all sales are final". This is fine but the fact that in defining the word "sale" they have include a "promise to deliver something" without actually having delivered it, is patently unreasonable. It is term that I am confident the Court would look down on. If you take that term to its logical extreme, that would mean no one could ever get a refund even if they cancel prior to day 1, since a "sale" would occur the minute you make the pre-order.

That's reasonable, and I don't necessarily disagree about how it should be (and definitely agree that they should offer you a refund), and that a major point of contention would be what the scope of the "sale" or "transaction" is. It would probably be interpreted as being that you pay now in exchange for the rights to download the game at 12:01 or on that day, or it could be a contract governing an ongoing relationship.

Even if the former, the concept of "imperfect performance" may keep it from being even a full breach that would allow you to repudiate, although my familiarity with that doctrine is limited to bigger contracts, and I am not sure how it would work with a goods/services context.

More than anything, Sony has a large and well compensated in-house counsel team, much of their job being to make sure that they aren't exposing themselves to liability in situations like this. They are typically very good at their jobs.

Edit to add: Also, that is interesting about Canadian law. Thanks.

[SoMiss2000]

Quote: Originally Posted by Pirate

Yep... the email that granted the refund said it was a one-time "goodwill gesture." If not for that wording I would likely contact them to have it taken back. I don't like feeling like I stole. I don't have plans to use it.

Quote: Originally Posted by boxers

I will try to say this in the least antagonistic way possible because I'm not here to start an argument but how many of you are actually familiar with contract law? The actual problem with society is not that it is litigious but rather that people feel a need to comment on things that do not concern them. I didn't ask for your expert legal advice Sony's Terms of Service or "buyer beware law", I asked for people who want to do something to let me know. If you don't want to do anything about the problem, that's fine, mind your own business and move on. If you do want to do something, I actually do have a modicum of legal expertise and I think there is a case to be made here because you simply cannot have a absolute refusal to refund on a pre-sale of a non-physical, electronic item. edit: Seriously guys, it is amazing to me to see how many people think they actually know what they are talking about. "ooooh, it says the terms of service, so it must be reasonable". Maybe think before you speak and try to keep it civil.

Is legal action worth $60?


Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S4

[SoMiss2000]

No

Quote: Originally Posted by HokieB

I'm interested, but it's not a case I'm losing sleep over. I guess I "jumped the gun" too, but when I purchased the hard copy around noon yesterday there was no indication that Sony's issue would be resolved that day. And a refund face or a game that I never ended up downloading seems perfectly reasonable to me. If you pre-ordered at Gamestop, went in Tuesday morning to pickup it up, and were told that the delivery truck broke down but the game should arrive soon, a perfectly reasonable response would be to cancel your pre-order and go to Best Buy down the street to pick it up. Yes, things happen, but the burden doesn't need to fall solely on the consumer. People have been brainwashed into bending over for corporations without a thought. It's sad.

Apples and oranges. You're comparing the physical media that is available via other outlets vs digital that's only available via PSN as far as I know.

I'm still just shocked that some of you behaved that way. Like you've never been inconvenienced in your lives. Like you've never dealt with any situation where things didn't go your way even with a few dollars involved.
Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S4

[jdeszcz]

Quote: Originally Posted by HokieB

PSN issues for the PS4 just aren't common knowledge. Frankly, I'm moving forward assuming this is a very isolated issue and will likely buy digital again.

Everyone that I know that has purchased a new release digitally has been frustrated with the crazy long download times, followed by installation, that's all I'm saying. I get that it's convenient, but, to me, until it gets ironed out I don't see it being all that convenient. And of course I realize that I have an advantage over some in that I pass two Gamestops, a Target and a WalMart on my way to and from the office daily.