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ARoid1313 · 03-26-2018, 01:22 AM

I’ve seen this happen many times in 17. Amazingly bad logic by the cpu and needs to be fixed but probably won’t

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aarondmsu · 03-26-2018, 06:12 AM

On a separate but tangential note, another issue I've always had with the manager hook is with regard to the starter himself (and this applies to RTTS or player lock in franchise mode). In previous versions, without exception, after the 6th inning, if you are up by 1 run and allowed a base runner (by any means, be it walk, hit or even error), you would get yanked regardless of your pitch count, how effective you were to that point, etc. You could be up 1-0 in the 7th inning, have a pitch count south of 60, and if a batter reaches base even because he hit a little squiber that the fielder boots, out comes the manager to take the ball. I'm not sure if that's still the case in 18. Anybody notice yet?

El_MaYiMbE · 03-26-2018, 10:20 AM

So this morning we got Patch 1.04. Since the game technically is not out yet, there were no release notes with it aside from "Gameplay Improvements and Bug Fixes". Hopefully we will get some later.

However....

I played 2 games, and reset sliders to default, and it seems like the bullpen logic is improved!

1. Rockies vs Cards (CPU) - game ended 7-5 and they used 4 pitchers in the game, and thats considering that the SP pitched 6 innings (4 ER). Wacha got into trouble late but had been cruising...and got intro trouble in the late middle innings.

2. Yankees vs Royals (CPU) - Duffy pitched a gem, allowing only runs of game on a 2-Run HR to Judge in the 3rd, but allowed only 4 hits across 6.2 IP. It was a close 3-2 game, and the Royals brought in the MRP, setup man, and closer to shut the door. The MRP being replaced by setup man was most intriguing, because he pitched a 1-2-3 inning and threw like 6 pitches. Meaning the logic triggered that although he is cruising the 8th belongs to setup man....this is good!

I also noticed in both games that although the RPs were not always brought in, that the CPU got guys warming in the later innings when the pitcher got in trouble. So it seems like the leash is shorter for RPs and SPs in late in the game, but not always did it result in a substitution...which again is good. It shows the CPU is getting bullpen and making judgement call. This, I feel, was not happening before.

More testing to be done. It might placebo, but the two games post patch played really well and the CPU Manager Hook logic seemed vastly improved while still on default sliders!

Keep you guys posted.

countryboy · 03-26-2018, 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by El_MaYiMbE


	So this morning we got Patch 1.04. Since the game technically is not out yet, there were no release notes with it aside from "Gameplay Improvements and Bug Fixes". Hopefully we will get some later. However.... I played 2 games, and reset sliders to default, and it seems like the bullpen logic is improved! 1. Rockies vs Cards (CPU) - game ended 7-5 and they used 4 pitchers in the game, and thats considering that the SP pitched 6 innings (4 ER). Wacha got into trouble late but had been cruising...and got intro trouble in the late middle innings. 2. Yankees vs Royals (CPU) - Duffy pitched a gem, allowing on a 2-Run HR to Judge in the 3rd, but allowed only 4 hits across 6.2 IP. It was a close 3-2 game, and the Royals brought in the MRP, setup man, and closer to shut the door. The MRP being replaced by setup man was most intriguing, because he pitched a 1-2-3 inning and threw like 6 pitches. Meaning the logic triggered that although he is cruising the 8th belongs to setup man....this is good! More testing to be done. It might placebo, but the two games post patch played really well and the CPU Manager Hook logic seemed vastly improved while still on default sliders! Keep you guys posted.

Great news!

Hopefully it was a bug they knew about and fixed prior to actual release date.

I'm going to test when I get home and will report back.

GoBlue81188 · 03-26-2018, 11:25 AM

FWIW, I’ve seen the CPU use pretty great bullpen logic. Situational lefties coming in, 4 out save situations, etc...

El_MaYiMbE · 03-26-2018, 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lhsballa11


	FWIW, I’ve seen the CPU use pretty great bullpen logic. Situational lefties coming in, 4 out save situations, etc...

Have you seen the opposite? A Long Relief pitcher stay in 4 innings, in a close game where the middle relief guy should have been used?

Not saying it does not happen, but definitely has not been the norm prior to Patch 1.04....which I still need to play more to confirm if it has resolved the issues I was referencing.

GoBlue81188 · 03-26-2018, 12:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by El_MaYiMbE


	Have you seen the opposite? A Long Relief pitcher stay in 4 innings, in a close game where the middle relief guy should have been used? Not saying it does not happen, but definitely has not been the norm prior to Patch 1.04....which I still need to play more to confirm if t has resolved the issues I was referencing.

Honestly my sample size isn’t high enough yet. Almost all my games have been really close into the late innings and I haven’t noticed any unusual behavior regarding the bullpen.

Will continue to take a look at it, sounds like the new patch maybe cleaned things up for those that did see it.

tessl · 03-26-2018, 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by El_MaYiMbE


	My main gripe with this issue is realism. Turning off DH is NOT an option for me to anyone who expects realism from The Show. The issue I described is deeper than just sometimes they do this and sometimes that. What I described above is 100% related to CPU logic being off. If others can confirm they experience the same (like I feel I have) I would like for either: 1. SDS to resolve it (preferable) 2. OS Community fix via sliders (acceptable) However #2 seems unlikely as me changing sliders hasn't yielded proper results, but I could be misdiagnosing the issue.

No offense but everything in your op happens in real life except for mound visits which has been a problem for the cpu in previous editions.

Relief pitchers do sometimes throw 30-50 pitches when the starter gets knocked out early or the team is losing by a significant margin. A reliever "takes one for the team" in order to rest the other relievers. That's not a bug.

They could improve cpu mound visits. On that much we agree.

03-26-2018, 01:22 AM	#9
ARoid1313 Pro OVR: 3 Join Date: Mar 2009	Re: CPU Manager Hook I’ve seen this happen many times in 17. Amazingly bad logic by the cpu and needs to be fixed but probably won’t Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

03-26-2018, 06:12 AM	#10
aarondmsu Rookie OVR: 0 Join Date: May 2012	Re: CPU Manager Hook On a separate but tangential note, another issue I've always had with the manager hook is with regard to the starter himself (and this applies to RTTS or player lock in franchise mode). In previous versions, without exception, after the 6th inning, if you are up by 1 run and allowed a base runner (by any means, be it walk, hit or even error), you would get yanked regardless of your pitch count, how effective you were to that point, etc. You could be up 1-0 in the 7th inning, have a pitch count south of 60, and if a batter reaches base even because he hit a little squiber that the fielder boots, out comes the manager to take the ball. I'm not sure if that's still the case in 18. Anybody notice yet? King Gro23 likes this.

03-26-2018, 10:20 AM	#11
El_MaYiMbE MVP OVR: 10 Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Orlando, FL	Re: CPU Manager Hook So this morning we got Patch 1.04. Since the game technically is not out yet, there were no release notes with it aside from "Gameplay Improvements and Bug Fixes". Hopefully we will get some later. However.... I played 2 games, and reset sliders to default, and it seems like the bullpen logic is improved! 1. Rockies vs Cards (CPU) - game ended 7-5 and they used 4 pitchers in the game, and thats considering that the SP pitched 6 innings (4 ER). Wacha got into trouble late but had been cruising...and got intro trouble in the late middle innings. 2. Yankees vs Royals (CPU) - Duffy pitched a gem, allowing only runs of game on a 2-Run HR to Judge in the 3rd, but allowed only 4 hits across 6.2 IP. It was a close 3-2 game, and the Royals brought in the MRP, setup man, and closer to shut the door. The MRP being replaced by setup man was most intriguing, because he pitched a 1-2-3 inning and threw like 6 pitches. Meaning the logic triggered that although he is cruising the 8th belongs to setup man....this is good! I also noticed in both games that although the RPs were not always brought in, that the CPU got guys warming in the later innings when the pitcher got in trouble. So it seems like the leash is shorter for RPs and SPs in late in the game, but not always did it result in a substitution...which again is good. It shows the CPU is getting bullpen and making judgement call. This, I feel, was not happening before. More testing to be done. It might placebo, but the two games post patch played really well and the CPU Manager Hook logic seemed vastly improved while still on default sliders! Keep you guys posted. Last edited by El_MaYiMbE; 03-26-2018 at 10:28 AM.

03-26-2018, 11:25 AM	#13
GoBlue81188 MVP OVR: 6 Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 1,802	Re: CPU Manager Hook FWIW, I’ve seen the CPU use pretty great bullpen logic. Situational lefties coming in, 4 out save situations, etc... El_MaYiMbE, racerx, The Kid 24 and 1 others like this. __________________ Twitch: Goblue81188

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