Speed min and max sliders?

[Smallville102001]

So I am not sure if they are new sliders or not having not played the game from 19-21 but I see there is a sliders for like speed of slow players and fast players or something. I am wondering if anyone has messed with those or not yet has it seems like there is not enough of a speed difference with fast vs slow guys.

[arcform]

Quote: Originally Posted by Smallville102001

So I am not sure if they are new sliders or not having not played the game from 19-21 but I see there is a sliders for like speed of slow players and fast players or something. I am wondering if anyone has messed with those or not yet has it seems like there is not enough of a speed difference with fast vs slow guys.

What you see in the description is exactly what those sliders means. Speed is speed as we know. However, acceleration is ability or how long it takes for a player to reach top speed wherever that speed value is capped at. And yes, that does play a large part in separation between fast vs slow guys. I have read many comments where people have gripes about the same issue you've listed here, and I would simply start with adjusting the movement sliders since it is directly linked to the problem being addressed. Then, go from there if needed.

Now for the extras...there are secondary things not listed in the movement slider descriptions that they affect in gameplay. I will list what I have tested over previous years.

Secondary Effects:
1. Maximums - moving forward or backwards
2. Minimums - lateral movements
3. Fatigue/Stamina - if set lower the more it effects these areas throughout the entire game/some effects in between possessions
4. Footplanting/pivoting - if all are set too low, players will slide more, not pivot as well, wont change direction and go out of bounce without you being able to shift or control the player, and on fastbreaks you wont be able to stop the player from moving forward.
5. Maximums - shot contests & blocked shots etc. mainly for smaller players
6. Minimums - shot contests & blocked shots etc. mainly for bigs

[Smallville102001]

Quote: Originally Posted by arcform

What you see in the description is exactly what those sliders means. Speed is speed as we know. However, acceleration is ability or how long it takes for a player to reach top speed wherever that speed value is capped at. And yes, that does play a large part in separation between fast vs slow guys. I have read many comments where people have gripes about the same issue you've listed here, and I would simply start with adjusting the movement sliders since it is directly linked to the problem being addressed. Then, go from there if needed. Now for the extras...there are secondary things not listed in the movement slider descriptions that they affect in gameplay. I will list what I have tested over previous years. Secondary Effects: 1. Maximums - moving forward or backwards 2. Minimums - lateral movements 3. Fatigue/Stamina - if set lower the more it effects these areas throughout the entire game/some effects in between possessions 4. Footplanting/pivoting - if all are set too low, players will slide more, not pivot as well, wont change direction and go out of bounce without you being able to shift or control the player, and on fastbreaks you wont be able to stop the player from moving forward. 5. Maximums - shot contests & blocked shots etc. mainly for smaller players 6. Minimums - shot contests & blocked shots etc. mainly for bigs

Have you messed with them yet your self to see like how much of a difference you are seeing? Starting to think the max needs to go way up and min way down on all of them. 4 I had not thought about before with foot planting.

[arcform]

Quote: Originally Posted by Smallville102001

Have you messed with them yet your self to see like how much of a difference you are seeing? Starting to think the max needs to go way up and min way down on all of them. 4 I had not thought about before with foot planting.

Yes, I have been tinkering around with them. I do empathize with those who expressed this as a problem both on current and next gen as it does truly seem to be identical on all systems. I played it again today and the issue is more noticeable to me and probably because I was a little hyped about the game of course lol.

The reason I said start with movement directly is to also prevent slider placebo fixes for gameplay. Although some may view the secondary effects as placebo...

One placebo example is the Durability slider affecting possession to possession stamina. While it may be strictly for injuries, it is also a backdoor slider for ballhandler stamina getting all the way down the court, whether he/she slows down or not. Increasing it allows a player to complete a fastbreak without tiring. At least this was the case on previous 2k's.

This is what makes slider editing very difficult...the secondary effects it has on other gameplay aspects we never expected them to.

Right now, the biggest issue (apart from speed) from the start, is stamina. Ballhandler stamina slows a player severely, while defenders or offball players dont slow down between possessions. I just watched youtube vids of real life games and defenders get tired all the time throughout possession, making it a battle of stamina.

[arcform]

Quote: Originally Posted by Smallville102001

I am wondering if anyone has messed with those or not yet has it seems like there is not enough of a speed difference with fast vs slow guys.

To truly answer your question, yes, I have noticed a speed difference with fast vs slow guys tweaking the movement sliders. Especially in the half court setting. I have tried many variations and combinations 0 to 100 to see if its the same as the previous 2ks or not, and what they effect from rollers being faster or slower than the guys setting picks, to lateral movement both on offense and defense, to defenders getting blown by when closing out too hard from paint to perimeter. I have many conclusions to draw from the testing already to justify that they indeed play a huge role in whether to touch other sliders and how much, if any at all.

One example, acceleration without ball min being lowered vs speed without ball min and acceleration without ball max decreases bigs blocking abilities. So you'd have to be careful tweaking blocks in accordance with movement sliders changes, otherwise there'd be no balance. This is why one person saying 40 for blocks may not be perfect for another person's set. Its not a one size fit all. With that assessment that is why I still believe Movement Sliders are most important to nail.

[EccentricMeat]

I'm honestly not convinced that the Speed/Acceleration with Ball movement sliders even work at all this year. I can set them all to 0, all to 100, all max to 0 and all min to 100, or all max to 100 and all min to 0, and I don't see or feel a difference in acceleration or sprint speed.

Now the "without ball" sliders definitely work and have very drastic and obvious effects. But the "with ball" sliders seem to do absolutely nothing.

Am I crazy?

[arcform]

Quote: Originally Posted by EccentricMeat

I'm honestly not convinced that the Speed/Acceleration with Ball movement sliders even work at all this year. I can set them all to 0, all to 100, all max to 0 and all min to 100, or all max to 100 and all min to 0, and I don't see or feel a difference in acceleration or sprint speed. Now the "without ball" sliders definitely work and have very drastic and obvious effects. But the "with ball" sliders seem to do absolutely nothing. Am I crazy?

You are certainly not crazy. The more eyes on this subject the better so we can come up with the best solution. Any help is appreciated. Without ball definitely has more effect. Especially Speed without ball max, which I believe has the greatest effect on overall speed. I noticed that when i cranked this slider to 100 while keeping On ball speeds at default 70 max and 40 min, that even my with ball players sped up. But I lowered the bottom 3 without ball sliders significantly. It is not a huge difference but it is noticeable in the half court setting. So yes you are spot on about without ball being more effective. I am still running a lot of tests at the moment and discovering things as I go along. Note: Current-Gen

I am currently testing right now:

MOVEMENT

Speed with Ball (Max rating): 70
Speed with Ball (Min rating): 40
Acceleration with Ball (Max rating): 100
Acceleration with Ball (Min rating): 100
Speed without Ball (Max rating): 100
Speed without Ball (Min rating): 10
Acceleration without Ball (Max rating): 0
Acceleration without Ball (Min rating): 0

Earlier today I tested:

MOVEMENT

Speed with Ball (Max rating): 70
Speed with Ball (Min rating): 40
Acceleration with Ball (Max rating): 100
Acceleration with Ball (Min rating): 100
Speed without Ball (Max rating): 100
Speed without Ball (Min rating): 30
Acceleration without Ball (Max rating): 35
Acceleration without Ball (Min rating): 5

Edit: In fact I will run a test with, with ball all at 0 and without ball all at 100, then reverse and compare.

[arcform]

@EccentricMeat you just prompted me to do a 180 degree turn with testing all of this lol.

Ok, so it turns out the only way to see any true separation and yes on fastbreaks, are in the Attributes slider section. I set it all back to default settings for Movement Sliders and used this:

Attributes:
Acceleration: 100
Speed:0

Now the defense took a huge hit and the "with ball" players are now faster than "without ball".

This is prompting me to tweak movement sliders differently (mainly without ball) and hopefully get a good balance along with separation.

I'd be honest and say I am still a fan of default speeds and not too upset with them. But willing to make changes and present them.