Why is it "okay" to cheat?

[HowDareI]

Quote: Originally Posted by jaateloauto

This seems like a serious case of shooting the messenger. You can't change human nature, if a game is competitive most people are going to do whatever they can to win. It's up to the developer to make the game so that the best way to win looks like basketball. That's what separates most online games from the ones that rise to esports level. They're designed in a way that promotes skilful play with a high skill ceiling. They systematically eliminate cheap strategies in order to make the game not only competitive, but fun to play. When you lose a game, you won't need to blame it on Zach Lavine running through 500 pounds for an animation dunk, but know the opponent outplayed you. I haven't played online in a couple of months, #1 reason being the input lag that's grown from butter smooth 2K14 last-gen to now unacceptable levels for me. Close second is how arcade the game plays when facing random opponents. When I did play online most of the time I spent was in sim online association with strict rules and team-up ladder on MLG (where there were rules against actual exploits such as the eurostep 3).

But that's okay to you?

You just straight up said you have to go out of your way to find good games because "actual" exploits were being used. I mean, you can deny it all you want, but these things people do are exploits. Idk how hard that can be to understand?

Anyway, so you want to have to go out of your way to find games then? You think it's okay for 2K to sit back and allow people to go online and abuse these things to gain victories?

Why is it bad for them people to get penalized for doing so? That's this whole thing that no one can answer....
What possible explanation can you give me, that sides with them people.

[Andreas85]

Quote: Originally Posted by HowDareI

I mean, you can deny it all you want, but these things people do are exploits. Idk how hard that can be to understand?

Ima say it again, all of the things you stated are not exploits, lets just get that cleared.

Quote: Originally Posted by HowDareI

Why is it bad for them people to get penalized for doing so? That's this whole thing that no one can answer.... What possible explanation can you give me, that sides with them people.

Like someone else stated, it's the developers job to make it so the best way to play is somewhat close to real basketball. If the best way to play happens to be to spam 2s and have a big men grabbing boards then the developers obviously failed. Left to right can easily be stopped. Again it's the developers fault it exists. Easy way to get open against bad defenders.

The way you're writing is pretty much saying that just because lets say i drive baseline everytime instead of down the middle i should get banned. If the developers made driving baseline much better then driving down the middle then in what way am i exploiting by doing the best thing i can do? The cheese talk is starting to get way out of hand, people now call regular crossovers cheese. Im gonna say the same thing i said earlier in the thread. Thats like saying i should be banned for using the best gun in lets say CoD instead of a decent gun simply because the developers made it that way. Lets say i make a shooter game. And somehow it ends up that jumping and shooting is the best way to play. Should i then ban everyone who jumps and shoot just because i made it the best way to play?

Going back to left to right. Now im talking about left to right 2s/3s. Simply running left to right is really cheesy, but not exploiting. Dribbling left to right is ok if u ask me. Because someone need to explain to me how someone like lets say kyrie irving or stephen curry would do 1v1 if he only wanted a 3. 2 points and a contested shot wasn't an option. Im saying this because the 1s/2s system makes 2s op. That's why people spam 2s.

Now something like screening in the paint is obviously exploiting. But things like left to right, spammin dribbles, spaming square/X isn't exploiting, its cheesy but not exploiting. The developers just made it the best way to play and they failed to make it so u get punished for reaching.

[BellSKA]

Quote: Originally Posted by Andreas85

Ima say it again, all of the things you stated are not exploits, lets just get that cleared. Like someone else stated, it's the developers job to make it so the best way to play is somewhat close to real basketball. If the best way to play happens to be to spam 2s and have a big men grabbing boards then the developers obviously failed. Left to right can easily be stopped. Again it's the developers fault it exists. Easy way to get open against bad defenders. The way you're writing is pretty much saying that just because lets say i drive baseline everytime instead of down the middle i should get banned. If the developers made driving baseline much better then driving down the middle then in what way am i exploiting by doing the best thing i can do? The cheese talk is starting to get way out of hand, people now call regular crossovers cheese. Im gonna say the same thing i said earlier in the thread. Thats like saying i should be banned for using the best gun in lets say CoD instead of a decent gun simply because the developers made it that way. Lets say i make a shooter game. And somehow it ends up that jumping and shooting is the best way to play. Should i then ban everyone who jumps and shoot just because i made it the best way to play? Going back to left to right. Now im talking about left to right 2s/3s. Simply running left to right is really cheesy, but not exploiting. Dribbling left to right is ok if u ask me. Because someone need to explain to me how someone like lets say kyrie irving or stephen curry would do 1v1 if he only wanted a 3. 2 points and a contested shot wasn't an option. Im saying this because the 1s/2s system makes 2s op. That's why people spam 2s. Now something like screening in the paint is obviously exploiting. But things like left to right, spammin dribbles, spaming square/X isn't exploiting, its cheesy but not exploiting. The developers just made it the best way to play and they failed to make it so u get punished for reaching.

So I'll just go a head and quote myself and Xbox Live's 'Code of Conduct' again.

"It also feels like some have felt the need to commandeer the OPs basic point and make it their own which has nothing to do with the original topic.

"Do not exploit game vulnerabilities or glitches.""

What you wrote is not even close to anything the OP has been trying to get across.

"The way you're writing is pretty much saying that just because lets say i drive baseline everytime instead of down the middle i should get banned."

and then you confused me...

Ima say it again, all of the things you stated are not exploits, lets just get that cleared.

Now something like screening in the paint is obviously exploiting.

You are completely contradicting yourself and just need to give it a rest. If trolling was the highest form of flattery you'd be sending the OP love letters.

A lot of the things the OP is talking about are very cheesy. Only a couple are CHEATING. I'll go ahead and use cheat instead of exploit. My biggest complaint are the double dribble cheaters. I've stated this many times. Since the game calls traveling but not double dribble people are exploiting the circumstances and cheating.

[Yesh2kdone]

Quote: Originally Posted by Andreas85

Ima say it again, all of the things you stated are not exploits, lets just get that cleared. Like someone else stated, it's the developers job to make it so the best way to play is somewhat close to real basketball. If the best way to play happens to be to spam 2s and have a big men grabbing boards then the developers obviously failed. Left to right can easily be stopped. Again it's the developers fault it exists. Easy way to get open against bad defenders. The way you're writing is pretty much saying that just because lets say i drive baseline everytime instead of down the middle i should get banned. If the developers made driving baseline much better then driving down the middle then in what way am i exploiting by doing the best thing i can do? The cheese talk is starting to get way out of hand, people now call regular crossovers cheese. Im gonna say the same thing i said earlier in the thread. Thats like saying i should be banned for using the best gun in lets say CoD instead of a decent gun simply because the developers made it that way. Lets say i make a shooter game. And somehow it ends up that jumping and shooting is the best way to play. Should i then ban everyone who jumps and shoot just because i made it the best way to play? Going back to left to right. Now im talking about left to right 2s/3s. Simply running left to right is really cheesy, but not exploiting. Dribbling left to right is ok if u ask me. Because someone need to explain to me how someone like lets say kyrie irving or stephen curry would do 1v1 if he only wanted a 3. 2 points and a contested shot wasn't an option. Im saying this because the 1s/2s system makes 2s op. That's why people spam 2s. Now something like screening in the paint is obviously exploiting. But things like left to right, spammin dribbles, spaming square/X isn't exploiting, its cheesy but not exploiting. The developers just made it the best way to play and they failed to make it so u get punished for reaching.

Sounds like you're prone to a bit of left and rightery yourself, with added frustration that people are getting pissed at you and reaching in without punishment.

Screening in the paint is no worse/better than left right left right shoot. It's just the lowest common denominator that sucks all the fun out of the game. I'd rather lose a match trying to have fun, and play a role, than get the ball 15 times, dribble left right left right behind a double screen and shoot.

Getting a couple of chase down blocks on park is far more rewarding to me personally than scoring all 15pts with 2's.

[Andreas85]

Quote: Originally Posted by BellSKA

What you wrote is not even close to anything the OP has been trying to get across.

oh really?

Quote: Originally Posted by HowDareI

then maybe they should show it's not okay to abuse that cheese and start issuing bans.

Quote: Originally Posted by HowDareI

Basically what I'm getting at is: the 3 point corner stepbacks the zig zag (despite being "patched") still working the online delay seeming to effect all my shots but not on the other side the spamming of dribble moves baseline driving screening in the paint etc. These are all EXPLOITS.

Quote: Originally Posted by BellSKA

"The way you're writing is pretty much saying that just because lets say i drive baseline everytime instead of down the middle i should get banned." and then you confused me...

He stated earlier that 2k should start issuing bans against people who "exploit" and driving baseline is exploiting according to him. What i was trying to say is that in what way am i exploiting by just doing the best thing i can do? If driving baseline happen to be the best way to drive im obviously gonna do it.

Quote: Originally Posted by BellSKA

Now something like screening in the paint is obviously exploiting. You are completely contradicting yourself and just need to give it a rest. If trolling was the highest form of flattery you'd be sending the OP love letters. A lot of the things the OP is talking about are very cheesy. Only a couple are CHEATING. I'll go ahead and use cheat instead of exploit. My biggest complaint are the double dribble cheaters. I've stated this many times. Since the game calls traveling but not double dribble people are exploiting the circumstances and cheating.

This is what i was trying to say. OP is saying everything = Exploiting. That's his words. Example: Driving baseline might be cheesy its not exploiting tho. Double dribble is obviously exploiting. Screening in the paint is exploiting since ur using screens to cancel your opponent from playing defense i.e. you cant box him out. What i was trying to say pretty much:

A) Sim = ideal experience for basketball purists i.e "mimics real life bball to the smallest details"

B) Cheese = overpowered moves i.e. "zigzag cheese/driving baseline is overpowered when compared with real NBA"

C) Exploiting = i.e. double dribble, screening in the paint.

D) Cheating / Glitches = changing the code / programming for an advantage. i.e. "hacks, mods, speed glitches, etc"

[Andreas85]

Quote: Originally Posted by Yesh2k

Sounds like you're prone to a bit of left and rightery yourself

I dont run left & right, i simply dribble to get open, crossovers, behind the back etc. Again as i said earlier explain to me how it would look like for someone like steph curry 1v1 if he wanted a 3 and contested shot & 2 pointer wouldn't be an option. What you people dont seem to get is that people want 2s, so can someone explain to be how to get a open 2 by not running/dribbling left then right or right then left? Dont give me that "pass the ball,move without the ball and use screens" against defenders who arent complete bums "sim" style doesn't work unless u wanna shoot contested shots.

I do cheese but i have a few rules:
Stage/highrollers: 1. Im playing for my money im gonna do whatever i can to win. 2. You would be dumb not to cheese since everyone is already doing it.

Rec: I play Sim


Park: Randoms=Are they good and do they actually have a brain?=Sim.

Are they complete brainless players who continue to do stupid stuff?=Im gonna do whatever i can do win. Since i have to play as a one man army.


Squad: Depends who i play with. I have a few people i play sim with, and others i dont.

And if the opponent cheese in any way then im gonna cheese back.

Quote: Originally Posted by Yesh2k

with added frustration that people are getting pissed at you and reaching in without punishment.

Correct me if im wrong because my english is not the best. I assume ur saying that im complaining about people reaching without punishment? if thats not what you meant my bad.

Anyways the thing people actually need to stop in order to play better defense is actually to stop reaching. Left to right is easy to defend. No jumping, no reaching and if u turbo at the wrong times u wont be able to keep up. And a hand in his face when he shoots. When people spam square/x it makes it much easier for the person going left right. Im just pointing out that u dont really get punished for reaching.

Quote: Originally Posted by Yesh2k

Screening in the paint is no worse/better than left right left right shoot.

To me it is: left right left right shoot is cheesy. But Screening in the paint is exploiting to me since ur using screens to cancel ur opponent from defending i.e. Your opponent cant box you out. Meaning u pretty much disabling your opponent from defending.

[NDAlum]

But that's what online vs randoms is...

People try to find every exploit/advantage they can gain to win and up their stats/W-L record/ego. There's a definite "win at all costs" mentality.

It's never going to change but every year we'll see this same thread pop up to have this same conversation.

If you think you're going to consistently get into an online game teamed up with randoms and you think it'll be fun and somewhat resemble what you would see in the NBA I think you're crazy.

[BellSKA]

Quote: Originally Posted by Andreas85

This is what i was trying to say. OP is saying everything = Exploiting. That's his words. Example: Driving baseline might be cheesy its not exploiting tho. Double dribble is obviously exploiting. Screening in the paint is exploiting since ur using screens to cancel your opponent from playing defense i.e. you cant box him out. What i was trying to say pretty much: A) Sim = ideal experience for basketball purists i.e "mimics real life bball to the smallest details" B) Cheese = overpowered moves i.e. "zigzag cheese/driving baseline is overpowered when compared with real NBA" C) Exploiting = i.e. double dribble, screening in the paint. D) Cheating / Glitches = changing the code / programming for an advantage. i.e. "hacks, mods, speed glitches, etc"

"*I'm not saying someone who does it a few times a game needs to be banned from ever playing, that's where people are getting it wrong. I don't even mind people doing it like that; sometimes it's a mistake, sometimes the play just breaks down like that.
I'm talking about the people who exclusively abuse known exploits to gain unfair advantages. It's literally against the rules to go online and do that per Microsoft, I'm assuming Sony too.
**And I'm talking 24 hour suspension, let people know it's not okay. Do it again? 48 hours. They have report buttons for a reason, if they're not using them then remove it from the system."

Stright from the OP. I questioned the banning as well & they clarified it. I stand by what I said, I don't think you and many others really understood what the OP was trying to say.

I'm not even going to comment on your self made A-D list.

But I will comment on your idea that a professional basketball player would zig zag to get an open shot. 1st, what a waste of energy. No pro would ever do that. They would use every dribbling move possible to create space. Jab step, step back, killer crossover, etc. And I know your type all too well, I never once said spamming dribble moves was cheating. So hold your troll right there.

I'm done getting hooked by trolls in this thread, I've said my peace. I can't trust a word you say anyway with all the contradictions. Flame on me all you want I've grown tired of your tom-foolery.