How to deal with 2K comebacks, "rubber-banding", and crazy stuffs (video proof)...

[Mbunn1993]

Quote: Originally Posted by prestwood90

What is it about 2k that people like to complain so much about? No other sports game gets the repetitive whiney comments day in and day out the way 2k does...... It has issues like any game but geez its so old to see the same dudes just constantly on here....... If u hate the game then stop buying it, pretty simple solution Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N920A using Tapatalk

Compared to the amount of users 2K actually has, OS is an extremely small population of users. Although most points people make here are very valid, a lot users simply don't care or don't notice all the things we do because they just find what works and exploit that without a care in the world of what is realistic and what is not. Then just rinse and repeat year after year

[mrchiggs]

Great Vid. I see rubber-banding in most games. I play head to head with a few friends each week and often the games seem scripted at certain points. I know when the runs are coming and I can feel the game change. Im either the beneficiary or one of my friends are. The game just changes. I'll come down the court and all of a sudden my players ball handling goes from A+ to C- (Not literally) but i'll have problems were most collisions or swipe at the ball or pass will lead to a turnover. Same time open shots stop falling. I don't mind missing shots, even open ones. I like it cause its realistic. But the cataclysm of missed shots and wacky ball handling that seems to happen on que, can be mad frustrating.

My friend who tends to run and gun while I play more Sim, seems to benefit during these stretches. Its usually at the end of the first or beginning of the 2nd... and Home teams get a run to start the 3rd and the end of the fourth. I mean it plays out like this. Maybe its just me playing differently during those stretching, but I've been playing this game for over a decade and im not a scrub. i can just feel the changes happen.

Good video! I do use the timeouts and change my play style a bit during these stretches. Usually i slow the game down to a crawl to try to stave off the effect. it works often enough.

[kac]

Quote: Originally Posted by mrchiggs

Great Vid. I see rubber-banding in most games. I play head to head with a few friends each week and often the games seem scripted at certain points. I know when the runs are coming and I can feel the game change. Im either the beneficiary or one of my friends are. The game just changes. I'll come down the court and all of a sudden my players ball handling goes from A+ to C- (Not literally) but i'll have problems were most collisions or swipe at the ball or pass will lead to a turnover. Same time open shots stop falling. I don't mind missing shots, even open ones. I like it cause its realistic. But the cataclysm of missed shots and wacky ball handling that seems to happen on que, can be mad frustrating. My friend who tends to run and gun while I play more Sim, seems to benefit during these stretches. Its usually at the end of the first or beginning of the 2nd... and Home teams get a run to start the 3rd and the end of the fourth. I mean it plays out like this. Maybe its just me playing differently during those stretching, but I've been playing this game for over a decade and im not a scrub. i can just feel the changes happen. Good video! I do use the timeouts and change my play style a bit during these stretches. Usually i slow the game down to a crawl to try to stave off the effect. it works often enough.

Exactly how I feel it's like you lose complete control and nothing you do will stop it until the game decides to stop it.


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[dduskin7]

Sam Pham your vids are great buddy..but having things "reverse" and go your way is pretty easy with the Warriors in play now online. A lot of times they will flat out make AI steals for you. Not trying to be rude. You really only need to look at the FT success logic in regards to things being out of control or "rubberbanding". That part of the game is pretty blatant. A typical "good" game for me in PNO is to shoot 65% or better. My stat lines are always almost identical in regards to shots taken. My opponents always take more shots. Always...now you're going to say rebound better. If my POE is set correctly, I can't do anything about it. My opponent always has 5 plus offense rebounds. That is "rubberbanding". It is very difficult to beat an opponent by 10 or more if they're at least somewhat decent or simply have a better team. I have had buzzer beaters or OT ties more times than I can count. When I shoot a great % and game allows him more attempts to score.


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[dduskin7]

By the way to clean some of the weird stuff offline just set all the tendencies to 100


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[Mbunn1993]

Quote: Originally Posted by dduskin7

Sam Pham your vids are great buddy..but having things "reverse" and go your way is pretty easy with the Warriors in play now online. A lot of times they will flat out make AI steals for you. Not trying to be rude. You really only need to look at the FT success logic in regards to things being out of control or "rubberbanding". That part of the game is pretty blatant. A typical "good" game for me in PNO is to shoot 65% or better. My stat lines are always almost identical in regards to shots taken. My opponents always take more shots. Always...now you're going to say rebound better. If my POE is set correctly, I can't do anything about it. My opponent always has 5 plus offense rebounds. That is "rubberbanding". It is very difficult to beat an opponent by 10 or more if they're at least somewhat decent or simply have a better team. I have had buzzer beaters or OT ties more times than I can count. When I shoot a great % and game allows him more attempts to score. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Not trying to say these things don't happen to you or in general, but you do realize these things (not just rebounding) go both ways right?.. It's like people here on OS think they are in some special category of users where these things are only happening for their opponents or programmed against them, but then when it goes the opposite way people fail to acknowledge it and can be totally hypocritical. Against the CPU? Sure. Online? What makes it exactly so that EVERY opponent you face has a programmed rebounding advantage, yet from your opponents perspective things are just normal? Where's their programmed, scripted advantages? It's the style of play that you and/or your opponent are using. Your opponent typically had more offensive rebounds? Because you probably don't force as many bad shots and therefore limit your opportunities to grab rebounds, whereas your opponents probably do. Your opponent typically has more free throws from contact shots? Because they are turboing into the paint to get more opportunities for them to be called. Your opponent typically takes more shots? Because they are running more fast breaks and taking early shots and you play at a slower pace. Then people think that because Your opponent comes back from a 15 pt defecit, it's because it's the "comeback" advantage, not because you aren't playing good offense or defense. You come back from a lead, it's because you started playing better not because you are so called immune to these "advantages" As I said these things happen, I get it, but they need to be viewed from different perspectives and not be so hypocritical. it's not just as simple as saying your opponent always has a programmed advantage.. Where's yours?

[jeebs9]

I laugh at people saying the AI hasn't improved hahaha.

You know what the problem is. People expect the CPU to be perfect. And that can't be the case. You have to make holes for both users to have a chance to win.

But just to repeat again. The AI has come a long way. A long way....

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[Hooperport]

Quote: Originally Posted by iam31yearsold

Some people want change and innovation and won't give it a pass because graphics and announcers. Same AI for years = everyone knows what is going to happen, makes it feel like scripted outcomes. All animations, no physics.

I think most of us are reading both too much and too little into it. I don't believe there is a set scripted outcome (result), BUT there are clearly many game "devices". The AI (and the term AI should be used very loosely, unless 2K has created something the world's best engineers hasn't been able to) reacts to patterns, states and inputs as it is a program, and has a set of reactions with can or cannot be stopped depending on various user actions.

Look how fluid and open the offensive game is, it's fantastic, even though some things will happen over and over again. But it's still great, and the very best of sports gaming. Compare that to the utter shambles that is "AI" on overall gameplay. I don't think there's enough "branched out actions" to hide the fact that there is no real AI. Along comes the game devices. The game won't let you win 150-50, no matter what or who you play. It will cheat you, using said devices, up in your face to keep the game even, level, momentum, call it what you want. Somewhere in the branch of actions it will stop you regardless, if you're doing too well. Look at the infinately annoying rim-bouncing, see how it reacts to your position and how it fits the scenario. Better still, crank the game down to rookie and watch the game go ballistic in your face. Full-court passes through defenders, PGs running unhindered to jack off 20-feet double-contested pull-ups, rebounds directly to one-pass fastbreaks, superhuman loose ball reactions straight to a wide open 3, dunking through arms, foul cheese, making scubs into superstars, you know the drill. All devices. They are less dominant on higher levels, as the game doesn't need to use them as much. But they DO exist.

Now this is only a game, with all it's limitations. Not a sim in any shape or form, nor should it be taken as such. That's OK, that's how it is and I'm fine with that. But 2K doesn't try to hide the fact that the game will downright cheat you if the engine feels like it, but instead harps on about some CPU AI that simply isn't there. That's not ok. Bend the rules, but HIDE IT. I don't want to win by a 100 points, but create the illusion of me being outplayed, not lazily outcheated. Create a level playing field and implement more randomness. Make the CPU dribble, run some plays, whatever, don't just stand there for 23 seconds to pass to a wide open man, don't fastbreak on every rebound, don't make my teammates run away from the ballhandler or standing out of bounds just to score. And for God's sake, tune down the CPU half and full-court shot clock cheese, I'd rather never see them than see them made every 10th game.

Take FIFA, if you pick Barcelona and play Braille United on the lowest difficulty, you WILL pulverize them 50-0. The CPU won't make the goalkeeper run 80 yards, dribbling 5 men to smack the ball right through the body of the other keeper x amount of times per game, just to keep it "close". It won't let you shoot or pass right when you point the stick left, just... because. It will let you choose the difficulty to match your skill level, and ramps up the cheesing along the way to give everyone an enjoyable experience. 2K doesn't do that, and gives no signal of overhauling the game engine, because few are complaining and it's more convenient and profitable to make patches and visuals. Sure, the AI still makes for a "tight" game, but it sacrifices believability to do so. That's why you get pounded with so many WTF moments, and for me, that's a poor design decision. This isn't some indie game, it's a yearly-iterated premium title, and at least some of us want more than updated uniforms and some Spike Lee drivel to stay in the loop.

I might add that I've just had an all-time worst experience against the "Cavs" aka the Avengers, and needed to vent.