We need to start blaming the Community as much as we blame 2K for state of gameplay

[ihoopfor206]

Quote: Originally Posted by NoLeafClover

I think people are missing the point, nowhere was it that 2K shouldn't be blamed for all the flaws, far from it. The point is that the overall "culture" of the game seems to have changed for the far worse year after year, to the point where it is now. The gameplay mechanical flaws are exacerbated by the increasing percentage of the community's disdain for actual basketball to do everything possible to "cheese" a win instead of earn one, as the percentage of less true basketball fans and general "gamers" has risen with 2K's increased playerbase and popularity. In other words, "basketball" isn't what matters to a ton of the current playerbase; "winning at all costs even if it requires cheating the system" is. Sent from my SM-T810 using Operation Sports mobile app

Naw it's the community. 100% agree with your original post. If you and I played against one another I'd imagine we'd run sets and try to exploit mismatches. Not mistakes in AI for a sports video game is unachievable.... the problem is kids knowing these issues or youtubing "cheese nba2k tactics". 2k can't create a perfect AI environment but they've done a ridiculous good job. Sorry to everyone who gets butt hurt from this but If you set your settings and have good defenders and can control on ball defense you are set.


The problem is AI is not set to stop unrealistic **** aka 5 out the full game or just sprinting down the court. It's very much a community problem. Go ahead and say other communities are "more toxic"; it doesn't prevent this community being a bunch of idiots who are completely toxic to how this game was made. These kids would stab their grandma for a win before playing a game where they attempt to make realistic basketball plays.


If you think the problem is not with the community play a game with me or anyone who cares about basketball as a sport and tell me how awful this game is.


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[Kushmir]

Agree 100% on contested makes...the complaints and resulting gameplay where user contests virtually guarantee a miss has continued to hurt the game.

IMO the primary gamplay focus should always be on removing exploits and legacy issues...cheese begets cheese. use of exploits is on the user but Devs have to be aggressive in their removal.

But no, the community isn't more toxic than any other.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I527 using Operation Sports mobile app

[jfsolo]

CliffsNotes version: Gamers will always exploit, onus is on dev teams to stop them, but will they?

I don't rant and call them names, but I always put the blame on development teams. A very large percentage of the community will always look for the the easiest path to winning. They're gong to do what ever shenanigans that the game allows them to do. That's never going to change, ever. They will only attempt to play the sport in a way that mimics reality when the game makes them do it to have success, Full Stop.

I also feel like the gameplay team also has one hand tied behind their backs now. The extra revenue generated primarily by, IMO, players of that ilk, i.e., ones who are more prone to using exploits, makes it unfortunately more likely for gameplay to be tuned and balanced around that playstyle. Dev teams just can't "afford" to let them fail miserably over and over again until they change their approach. The bosses in charge of increasing profits, will not risk those cash cows spending their money on another game where they can have "fun".

Since the Madden dev team has a lot more interactivity and transparency, we've been able to see over the last couple of years many clear examples of real football elements being tuned down because of the outcries of a large percentage of players who didn't want to work to get better at using sound football concepts. Rex admitted that too many people quitting because it was too hard was simply unacceptable, so the higher learning curve was scaled back.

That team knows now, and I hope that it's not just lip service, that separate tuning sets for different modes are necessary for all their playstyle communities to have a great gameplay experience.

2K tunes differently for offline and online, but they unfortunately got rid of the casual, default, and sim settings this year, so I'm now sure where they are philosophically on this issue now.

Fundamental flaws in the defensive A.I. and the band-aids added to mask those flaws have made tuning for offline play somewhat pointless when simple basketball concepts break the game. For online play, well the OP speaks to that. I as said in the beginning though, players will always do what the game allows them to do, always. It's on development teams to stop them.

[Kushmir]

Quote: Originally Posted by jfsolo

A very large percentage of the community will always look for the the easiest path to winning. They're gong to do what ever shenanigans that the game allows them to do. That's never going to change, ever. They will only attempt to play the sport in a way that mimics reality when the game makes them do it to have success, Full Stop.

This. ALL OF IT.

[awg811]

The blame should go mainly on 2k even though I agree that the community is also to blame.

Here's why.

Any game company, that produces an online gaming option, knows in advance that there will be people trying to find every exploit in the game to expose.

In COD, there's a whole counter culture that is dedicated to finding every single glitch, spot, hack, ways out of the map, etc that there is, and it's a HUGE group.
2k has it's own group that is just the same, although I believe it's a smaller group.

2k has been doing this for 17 years now, they are not surprised.

It is 2k's responsibility to test their game for these, and other things, as best they can and fix them before release. And when one is found, that they missed, fix it ASAP.

Any beta testers that missed this latest glitch should, at very least, have a stern talking to.

I would be interested to know how many beta testers there were for this game.

There will ALWAYS be those guys that want to find a glitch.
There's a bit of fame to be the first one to find it.
People have made careers on YouTube doing it!

If 2k were serious about it, they have every right to to ban those YouTubers from their game. Or at least make it very difficult for them to play.
There are ways that they could even get those YouTubers videos of their game taken off. Although, I'm not sure of the laws, I would think that this would fall under some copyright or TOS.

A glitch that no one knows about won't spread as quickly and gives 2k the time needed to fix it.

As long as they get fixed, in a timely manner, and the people that used them are reset, they aren't really that bad.
They are annoying, but if they are fixed, it doesn't make that much difference over the life of the game.

[Black Bruce Wayne]

You're not going to stop exploiting all the way. Especially when a majority of community is very young. Teens and Pre teens, etc. They have a different approach to simulation than say me, a man almost 40. You can't completely lock them out.

I remember I when I was a kid and started playing sports games, I definitely didn't play them right lol.

Now as I got older and started to understand sports, that changed. People have to remember the "community" is not made up of guys in their 30s who like sim. Thats probably a small fraction of the community. Their bulk is probably much younger.

So once again, I will say this again until im blue in the face and you guys get sick of it: We need the ability to be able to choose the difficulty we want to play with online. Specifically for Play Now or even MyTeam. I have no solution for The Park as the Park is pretty a serious version of NBA JAM.

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[RS130988]

I'VE NEVER SEEN ANYTHING LIKE THIS! The most pathetic dude ever to play any game. I still can't believe who I just played against. His, or rather its, profile name is GREECE_88 or something similarly lame. EVERY ATTACK he just pressed turbo after receiving the ball in the corner down the baseline and drew foul after foul after foul on me. So it's not strictly transition cheese. He had concerted attacks just to get the ball in the corner, whoever was there, and then he just turbo-ed towards the baseline and if this game wasn't as crappy as it definitely is, he would be out-of -bounds EVERY TIME. And it's not as if he perfected it in terms of coordination and walking near the baseline but never touching it, he was basically being bumped off an invisible wall which prevented him to go out of bounds and just drew fouls. He shot 23 free throws after drawing 25 fouls in less than 3 quarters when I quit. This is the most pathetic human being on the planet. I tried everything, off-ball, on-ball, allowing him to come under the basket and then play D, pre-rotate, conservative defense, zone. The guy was so lame he wouldn't shoot open threes with Curry and Thompson so he could draw a foul. AND 2K GAMEPLAY HAS ALLOWED THIS **** TO WIN THE GOAT TROPHY?! I thought they sorted the baseline cheese, but he didn't go out of bounds once. NOT ONCE! And every time no matter what I or AI did, there would be that stupid, lame animation for a blocking foul.
This is an argument against both the community as it obviously has imbeciles in it, but also against 2k since they knew there was an issue with an invisible wall preventing people from going out of bounds and they failed to act on it. What an absolute rubbish this game can be.
THE SADDEST THING IS: If there was a 2K tournament with the winner-takes-all 1 millions dollar award, this guy would be a millionaire.
EMBARRASSING.
PATHETIC.
2K.

[Black Bruce Wayne]

Quote: Originally Posted by RS130988

I'VE NEVER SEEN ANYTHING LIKE THIS! The most pathetic dude ever to play any game. I still can't believe who I just played against. His, or rather its, profile name is GREECE_88 or something similarly lame. EVERY ATTACK he just pressed turbo after receiving the ball in the corner down the baseline and drew foul after foul after foul on me. So it's not strictly transition cheese. He had concerted attacks just to get the ball in the corner, whoever was there, and then he just turbo-ed towards the baseline and if this game wasn't as crappy as it definitely is, he would be out-of -bounds EVERY TIME. And it's not as if he perfected it in terms of coordination and walking near the baseline but never touching it, he was basically being bumped off an invisible wall which prevented him to go out of bounds and just drew fouls. He shot 23 free throws after drawing 25 fouls in less than 3 quarters when I quit. This is the most pathetic human being on the planet. I tried everything, off-ball, on-ball, allowing him to come under the basket and then play D, pre-rotate, conservative defense, zone. The guy was so lame he wouldn't shoot open threes with Curry and Thompson so he could draw a foul. AND 2K GAMEPLAY HAS ALLOWED THIS **** TO WIN THE GOAT TROPHY?! I thought they sorted the baseline cheese, but he didn't go out of bounds once. NOT ONCE! And every time no matter what I or AI did, there would be that stupid, lame animation for a blocking foul. This is an argument against both the community as it obviously has imbeciles in it, but also against 2k since they knew there was an issue with an invisible wall preventing people from going out of bounds and they failed to act on it. What an absolute rubbish this game can be. THE SADDEST THING IS: If there was a 2K tournament with the winner-takes-all 1 millions dollar award, this guy would be a millionaire. EMBARRASSING. PATHETIC. 2K.

See, assume he was a adult. He might have been 12 years old. This is I hate being randomly matched up with people. Because I don't know if its a 12 year old or a 30 year old.