We need to start blaming the Community as much as we blame 2K for state of gameplay

[awg811]

Quote: Originally Posted by NoLeafClover

I don't understand this argument of "people have different ideas about what is sim"... It should obviously be making the gameplay as close to the current state of the real life NBA league as of 2017, considering that's, you know, the actual name of the game. I'd thus say most of us expect to play a game where players don't shoot 80 percent on open 3 pointers, or sprint so much that even Russell Westbrook would die of a heart attack after 1 quarter of the type of gameplay you see in the 5on5 game modes. Just make Park/Blacktop "arcade mode", and then make the 5v5 game modes as realistic as possible and you'd end up with a closer approximation of "sim" than trying to cater to 20 different audiences in every game mode...

Why is 2k relying on the community to make their game?
Sure, things to add in next years game make sense.
But, to ask the community, should we change shooting, dribbling, whatever, is silly.

You are the developers, designers, producers, etc.
You get paid to do your job.
If you want to make a SIM game, than make that.
Make adjustments to your game, not based on the communities opinion as they will always vary because so many people want so many different things, but to represent the game that you are trying to simulate!

It's YOUR job, not ours!

Use the data that you collect to do your job and create the game that you claim that you are trying to make.

Use the community to find things that are actually broken and verify yourself if it is actually broken or that it is not. Then make adjustments.

Missing open jumpers is part of basketball. That's why the greatest shooters in the history of the sport are shooting under 50%!

Stop catering to casual players if you don't want a casual game.
A SIM game, is not casual!

[jfsolo]

Quote: Originally Posted by The 24th Letter

Its pretty simple, really. For one, I dont care what the numbers are in 2017, I dont want a bunch of random, out of my control off ball fouls to be called to match up with the rate in which they happen in the NBA....some do, and have been asking for it for years. We both want a simulation game, but have difference of opinion on the implementation.

This posts encapsulates perfectly why I feel like all sports games need the setup that NHL 17 has. Even the sim community is split on what degree of NBA authenticity the game should have.

NHL starts with 4 presets, Arcade, Traditional, Competitive(the default online mode) and Full Sim. Each of these can then be customized to one's preference. There are also still several difficulty levels too.

Unfortunately instead of going more in this direction, 2K got rid of their style presets, seemly thinking that customization of the difficultly levels alone is sufficient, but I disagree with that decision.

[Black Bruce Wayne]

Quote: Originally Posted by The 24th Letter

Its pretty simple, really. For one, I dont care what the numbers are in 2017, I dont want a bunch of random, out of my control off ball fouls to be called to match up with the rate in which they happen in the NBA....some do, and have been asking for it for years. We both want a simulation game, but have difference of opinion on the implementation.

Then you don't want the most realistic game possible. I wish people would just admit that. Thats not a bad thing

[The 24th Letter]

Quote: Originally Posted by jfsolo

Unfortunately instead of going more in this direction, 2K got rid of their style presets, seemly thinking that customization of the difficultly levels alone is sufficient, but I disagree with that decision.

I dont really miss the style presets all that much. They are essentially slider tweaks. I dont really equate the games issues (my major ones at least) with the absence of them.

I was speaking more for the online crowd who cant customize their experience.

Maybe I am misunderstanding what NHLs presets do exactly though.

Quote: Originally Posted by Black Bruce Wayne

Then you don't want the most realistic game possible. I wish people would just admit that. Thats not a bad thing

I'm definitely not ashamed to say thats not my cup of tea. I know some some hardcore 'sim' guys who will deliberately avoid paint opportunities to make sure their PIP numbers arent inflated. Nah man, not for me. Doesnt mean I dont seek simulation game play though .

[CaseIH]

Quote: Originally Posted by jfsolo

This posts encapsulates perfectly why I feel like all sports games need the setup that NHL 17 has. Even the sim community is split on what degree of NBA authenticity the game should have. NHL starts with 4 presets, Arcade, Traditional, Competitive(the default online mode) and Full Sim. Each of these can then be customized to one's preference. There are also still several difficulty levels too. Unfortunately instead of going more in this direction, 2K got rid of their style presets, seemly thinking that customization of the difficultly levels alone is sufficient, but I disagree with that decision.

That sounds good to me, because I want the game to be as close to realism as they can possibly make. I want to see more Charges and non shooting fouls, as well as realistic turnover numbers, without almost every turnover being a steal.

So many say the want a simulation basketball game, but then I see these same people making comments that arent based on realism. For instance people say they want a sim, yet they dont want to see realistic number of non shooting fouls, or turnovers in a game. Well thats fine, I believe you should be able to play any way you desire, but lets call it what it is, your not for a true simulation if you dont want to see realistic number of turnovers, charge calls, and non shooting fouls overall.

To be perfectly honest, Im not sure the NBA2k gaming company truly wants to make a true simulation of the NBA either. If they did, then they would quit listening so much to those online players who constantly whine and moan about everything.

Now if its business driven and the online whiners and those who only care about about video game pickup basketball, thats based towards being arcade, then I get it, after all any business has to look at whats makes them the most money. If this is the case, then NBA2k, should stop promoting a simulation of basketball based on the NBA, just call your game video game pickup basketball.

This post isnt to bash the game or the devs, if this is who drives their sales, then its just smart business to cater to these players. Just saying if this is the case, then call it what it is, instead of falsely promoting something its not directed towards. Just seems to me, right not they are caught in the middle, where the true basketball fans that want a simulation arent happy, and neither is those who want to just play pickup video game basketball, granted your never please everyone, but they could probably please more if they went 1 direction or the other, unless you can somehow make it so it a 2 in 1 game. Which Im not sure you can, with how things are coded, I think unless you actually make 2 different games, its always going to be stuck in the middle so to speak, between a true sim, and loosely based sim of pickup game basketball.

While yes you can put blame on the community, but they dont make the game, and 2k dont have to listen to nonsense if they dont want too, so ultimately it still falls on the game company on the product they put out not being to your liking. Yes I wish those who want more of a true simulation of the NBA game whether they are like me and are Association offline players, and those who play online who want a true sim, but maybe were not the majority any longer, otherwise you would think the makers would care less about the online crybabies who just play pickup park basketball with their video game, and be able to do things that are unrealistic. All you have to do is watch top plays on the 2k TV show, and see who they cater to, and its not about a true sim of the NBA. Either the true basketball fans are outnumbered now by the arcade style players, or the makers prefer a more pickup style video basketball game geared more towards arcade style.

[coolcras7]

Quote: Originally Posted by awg811

Why is 2k relying on the community to make their game? Sure, things to add in next years game make sense. But, to ask the community, should we change shooting, dribbling, whatever, is silly. You are the developers, designers, producers, etc. You get paid to do your job. If you want to make a SIM game, than make that. Make adjustments to your game, not based on the communities opinion as they will always vary because so many people want so many different things, but to represent the game that you are trying to simulate! It's YOUR job, not ours! Use the data that you collect to do your job and create the game that you claim that you are trying to make. Use the community to find things that are actually broken and verify yourself if it is actually broken or that it is not. Then make adjustments. Missing open jumpers is part of basketball. That's why the greatest shooters in the history of the sport are shooting under 50%! Stop catering to casual players if you don't want a casual game. A SIM game, is not casual!

Never open your own business, ever heard the saying the customer is always right, and the 2k consumer is very loud and demanding even when requesting the most absurd suggestion.

[killxmike]

Quote: Originally Posted by The 24th Letter

I dont really miss the style presets all that much. They are essentially slider tweaks. I dont really equate the games issues (my major ones at least) with the absence of them. I was speaking more for the online crowd who cant customize their experience. Maybe I am misunderstanding what NHLs presets do exactly though. I'm definitely not ashamed to say thats not my cup of tea. I know some some hardcore 'sim' guys who will deliberately avoid paint opportunities to make sure their PIP numbers arent inflated. Nah man, not for me. Doesnt mean I dont seek simulation game play though .

Right, I want to simulate the mechanics of basketball. But, I don't want it to just be a replay game. I want players to move and play the way a person plays basketball but I don't want artificial manipulation of the gameplay to just replicate NBA results on all stats. In my mind, what is the point of playing the game if there are artificial tracks the game will follow. May as well just watch the game in coach mode.

[sk8board]

When someone posts or complains about something cheesy/glitchy on here I am the first one to do it on-line.

Who do you blame? Me for doing it, you for sharing it, or the devs for allowing it?

Face it, 2k brings out the worst in people.

I have friends who refuse to play me because of this reason.