On Ball Defensive Animations

[Kushmir]

Quote: Originally Posted by strawberryshortcake

Person A may not be able to take the Westbrooks, the Hardens of the world and ‘2k18’ their way to the basket in 2k19 (or 2k18 their way past half court, etc.) because all that was needed with 2k18 was a level 1 stick skill.

LMAO...2K18 is a verb now. Friggin' game was notorious. A MENACE.

"2K18 their way to the basket" I am dying over here.

[jfsolo]

I would imagine that the frustrations would be pretty high for a high Bball IQ Sim player online who isn't great with dribble mechanics. You set up situations that would in real life put the defense in a extremely vulnerable position that is going to produce a great scoring opportunity, but the design decisions enacted to create balance for H2H play makes the scenario exponentially harder than it should be, IMO.

I don't know if it will ever be tuned to mimic reality in the H2H space, especially with the "fun factor" credo making realistic block/charge numbers a no go. I guess it can't be helped because it's a video game where one is using a controller, but it's too bad that being mentally elite takes such a back seat to being elite with stick inputs, IMO.

[hurricane83]

Quote: Originally Posted by jfsolo

I would imagine that the frustrations would be pretty high for a high Bball IQ Sim player online who isn't great with dribble mechanics. You set up situations that would in real life put the defense in a extremely vulnerable position that is going to produce a great scoring opportunity, but the design decisions enacted to create balance for H2H play makes the scenario exponentially harder than it should be, IMO. I don't know if it will ever be tuned to mimic reality in the H2H space, especially with the "fun factor" credo making realistic block/charge numbers a no go. I guess it can't be helped because it's a video game where one is using a controller, but it's too bad that being mentally elite takes such a back seat to being elite with stick inputs, IMO.

I wish I could like this twice. This is exactly what’s frustrating. I run plays get mismatches and can’t take advantage. It’s cool. I’ll work on the sticks. Lol


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[bkprince23]

I get what you mean, I feel NBA Live (I'm one of those people that got both) did a good job defensively, making it almost a game of rock, raper, scissors. Now the system isn't perfect but it's a step in a right direction. Basically you have a window of opportunity to cut of the ball-handler but depending on the defender and ball handler the window closers pretty quickly. I would love for 2K to implement that into their games.

[de_jesus]

I disagree with OP wholeheartedly. I enjoy the new defense. Great defenders feel like monsters and he average NBA player is no longer subject to blow-by cheese. I feel that I’m spending more time trying to get the defense out of position, taking advantage of screens, and hunting for mismatches.

The reason Jordan can’t get pass Ball is because Ball is big, quick, actively defending and in good position. The game is no built around breaking down the defenders position or pushing for a switch.

The defense in my opinion is fine


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[hurricane83]

Quote: Originally Posted by de_jesus

I disagree with OP wholeheartedly. I enjoy the new defense. Great defenders feel like monsters and he average NBA player is no longer subject to blow-by cheese. I feel that I’m spending more time trying to get the defense out of position, taking advantage of screens, and hunting for mismatches. The reason Jordan can’t get pass Ball is because Ball is big, quick, actively defending and in good position. The game is no built around breaking down the defenders position or pushing for a switch. The defense in my opinion is fine Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports

Lonzo is all you mentioned but he’s no Gary Payton, whom himself was repeatedly torched by MJ arguably the greatest scoring guard or all time. I’ve seen Lonzo bit lit up my the likes of CJ McCollum. I agree all world defenders should feel like that what u described but not every nba player is an all world defender. I guess if you play 2k and your opponent switches Kyle Korver onto James Harden on the wing and you setup a hesitation then crossover and that first move is cut off then you use Korvers momentum from his initial effort against him to crossover again only for Korver to recover with this funky slow down momentum defensive animation that would be fine to you?

If that happens 3/10 out isolation plays I’m fine with it but for it to happen 8/10 in Korvers favor is a bit over done in my opinion. A lot of people that play this game don’t really watch basketball. They watch espn highlights and don’t see the how or the why. It’s harder for me because I under basketball and it’s concepts and I want a sim experience at all times even online where it’s not possible because of the meta and whatever other tactics people use to take advantage of the game.

I’ll continue to work on my stick skills. As I’ve been told to do over and over.


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[antdoggydogg]

Quote: Originally Posted by hurricane83

I agree with u 100% but I’ll say this. As it currently stands you as a user cannot properly exploit perimeter mismatches. If Kyle Korver is bodying up Ben Simmons 75 feet from the basket, hip riding him and causing me to get stuck in an animation where even if I steer away from the defense I’m unable to get away then what does that do for the game. Basket is a game of counters, adjustments and most of all shot making. In the defensive adjustments they give u these options and it explains in great detail if u do this then u are opening up this. Currently driving to the hoop with players that should be able to call weak perimeter players or big clumsy bigs like Brooke Lopez does not exist. CP3 should not have to do 8 shamgods and a step back to blow by and create a drive and still be body bumped and stymied on his drive. That’s not SIM.

Agree totally.

Quote: Originally Posted by BA2929

When would CP3 ever even attempt to do that many dribble moves against one guy? How is the idea of that even "sim"? If CP3 can't shake a guy after a move, he's not going to keep doing moves against the guy for 20 seconds. He'll either restart the offense. get a pick or throw up a contested jumper.

But that's the point some of us are making. CP3 wouldn't have to do all those moves, cause if he has a big switched on him, he's backing up and calling an iso. And the big is either gonna drop back to contain the drive or step up and deny a shot attempt/force the drive. That leads me to the next point:

Quote:

Kevin Love isn't the best perimeter defender, but he did lockdown Steph Curry in the Finals in 2016 on a few plays. From what I'm reading, what you want is for that to NEVER happen. You are suggesting that bad defenders are always bad, and top flight guys like CP3 and Steph never have to work for their buckets.

Kevin Love no doubt played great defense on that play. But you have to understand that the Warriors were down 3 points, and everyone knew Curry was desperate for a 3. Kevin Love's job was made easier because of that, he didn't care if he gives up the lane, in fact there were a couple instances where Curry had him leaning and could've driven in, but he was looking for that 3. Like my previous point, you either have to give up the drive or deny the shot, and Kevin Love denied the shot. So the drive or the blow by should be there in those instances.

Quote: Originally Posted by jfsolo

I would imagine that the frustrations would be pretty high for a high Bball IQ Sim player online who isn't great with dribble mechanics. You set up situations that would in real life put the defense in a extremely vulnerable position that is going to produce a great scoring opportunity, but the design decisions enacted to create balance for H2H play makes the scenario exponentially harder than it should be, IMO. I don't know if it will ever be tuned to mimic reality in the H2H space, especially with the "fun factor" credo making realistic block/charge numbers a no go. I guess it can't be helped because it's a video game where one is using a controller, but it's too bad that being mentally elite takes such a back seat to being elite with stick inputs, IMO.

This is the dilemma I was facing. I had to come to the realization that my basketball IQ is high, but my stick skills are not the best. So I went from HOF difficulty to All-Star. But I still can't pull off all the crazy moves that other dudes can, or break down defenses with the best ball handlers. I'll keep working on that part of my game. But a mismatch off a switch should be exactly that, a mismatch. I should feel like I have easy prey in front of me if I'm using Kyrie or Harden.

Also, I might be in the minority here but I thought 2K18's dribble drive game was realistic. I mean is the NBA not a drive and kick game now? Drive's happen all the time. But I understand they got a lot of hate from the community for it. And the online aspect of the game requires its own set of rules that they need to adjust for.

Can anyone here actually replicate any of this in the game: https://www.instagram.com/p/Bn9R94MHwWG/

Please upload video if so. I'm not saying its impossible but its extremely difficult to get defenders swaying like that.

I have speed sliders offline that can help me match Mitchell's speed but the combination of moves while on the go and getting to the rim against great defenders...

I also know it's not just my skills. Because I let a 48 minutes CPU vs CPU game run and the points in the paint stats were half of what they would be in real life, for both teams. Teams should average around 44 points in the paint a game. They're able to do that against my human defense, but CPU is clearly overpowered because it can't even score on itself. I attached a screenshot of the proof.

I love the game, its close to perfect. My first few days with it were great but over time I'm starting to feel the frustration by some of the inaccuracies. It doesn't mean I'll stop playing, it's still amazing. But if the defense is going to play this way, the blocks/charge calls could at least be called. They're non-existent in this game and I hope that's able to be patched, you can see the fouls are way too low.

[antdoggydogg]

Hope my double post isn't annoying but as proof that I know how to manufacture points in the paint by running actions here is me using my celtics:

https://1drv.ms/v/s!AuhXaSR4D1_QiSIhikazRRHnQN4u

But that can't be the only way to get nice looks at the rim. Some of it needs to happen organically.