Let's Seriously Discuss The Issues With Help Defense

[Benicio10]

Quote: Originally Posted by Chessboxer1

I think rather than have a defensive pressure slider, there might have to be more than just one man to man defense. Man Deny Every defender off the ball is three quarters on his man, its hard to complete passes but is susceptible to back door passes. Good for young athletic line-ups like the lakers second unit, or the hawks. High Side Man Hard on the ball, soft off of it. Everyone is ready to help against the dribble drive, and then recover to their man off of the pass. When the ball is at the top of the key the defender is straight up, but when its on the wings the defenders force their man baseline. The low post is played 3/4's but if the guy drives baseline the defender has to get around his man to help and try and draw the charge. Better for teams without a shot blocker. The opposite of High Side would be Low Side Man, where teams funnel everything to the middle of the floor, because the defense has a shot blocker. Other than that mostly everything is the same. There would of course be the straight up traditional 2k Man to man if you felt these defensive strategies were to complicated, or if your opponent figured out how to consistently beat them. Having more than one type of man to man defense would help solve a lot of issues, and you would have to make any one defense do too much.

Hope 2K is listening! Throw us a bone 2K and tell us that these are realistic to expect in future games?

[DaWolf]

Quote: Originally Posted by Court_vision

Great thread DC...and you've put your points across excellent. As has everyone on the thread to date. There's no doubt it's fundamanentally flawed. For me, it's kind of ruined the game. I ISO LeBron...I drive...i beat my man... And the CPU wingmen are all stuck like super glue to the guys they are defending. The D needs to collapse. 1. I can score way too easily with a guy like LBJ, even post patch. 2. It kills any sort of draw and kick game. As you said, even if you put non shooters on the perimeter...the CPU defenders never leave their men. The game feels really predictable because of it. Every time I drive, i know what's going to happen. The big man coming across to finally "help" is also broken as he leaves his guy free under the basket. You can simply pass off to the unguarded big for a lay up with ease most of the time.

This is so spot on! This thread is great - I just hope somebody at 2K Sports takes notice.

The Drive and Kick Out Game is such a fundamental part of the game that it ruins all the fun I had with the game because its missing. I think CHoops 2K8 did a great job on the help D.

[Pro Bowler]

Well, i waited on the patch and just got the game, but I'm wondering just how much deffensive pressure and defensive ratings play a role in help defense, if any. If you're denying the ball everywhere help D isn't going to be there. A real good team man D there should be help avaliable all the time on anyone, but defense is a skill and to be honest not everyone plays good off ball D.

To the guy above talking about the iso, your help on that play is usually going to come from a big guy and not the wing.

I'm wondering if in the future the best idea would be to just have an option like the double team option where you can select individual players to help out on instead of a slider. In real life it works like that where you are aware of certian players you're going to have to give help too.

I get into D and I will do some tests and try to post back later.

[Kruza]

Now we're getting somewhere.

I love the idea of having multiple man-to-man defensive schemes, Chessboxer1. It would be nice to have those pre-set schemes you mentioned listed in every team's defensive playbook as that would address how help defense is applied without going in-depth. However, I also think that the user should have the necessary options to manually tweak the finer details on how he/she wants the team to guard every opposing player off the ball in the way I explained in my other post. Just give the option of being able to do it both ways and allow the user to choose which method he/she prefers.

And fellas, we can't forget that defensive rotations need some work in this game too. But... first thing's first.

Kruza

[DC]

Yea because currently it seems they switch WAY too often when it comes to off ball screens.

[cvandy25]

Quote: Originally Posted by DCAllAmerican

Ok I have been doing some testing. I am in tutorial mode basically scrimmaging. I have both controllers set to one team. I am Dallas and the CPU is Indiana. For Dallas I put this lineup in the game. PG - Damp SG - Diop SF - Singleton PF - Shawne Williams C - Bass I did this to test if it mattered if the away from the ball offensive player being a bad shooter mattered how much the CPU helped off. I am controlling Bass with the ball in the left corner. I placed Diop in the right corner, almost out of bounds. The player that is defending Diop is NOT in the lane as he should be. Both feet are clearly outside of the paint and he is a little more than a arm's length away from Diop. This is a fundamental issue here. He should have BOTH feet in the paint ready to help out if Bass beats his man off of the dribble. Now I am moving Diop away from the corner to the wing. Again, his defender is still not in the paint is is practically one arm's length away from Diop. I move Diop to half court. Now the defender has a foot on the 3PT line opposite wing from where the ball is. I tried these scenarios with various combinations of Help Defense Global Sldier @ 100 and 0 Coach Profile Sliders @ 100 and 0 Defensive Awareness Sliders @ 100 and 0 I don't know if it can really be fixed this year. So maybe if some of you can test it out and see for yourself that help defense is seriously broken if you don't believe me

He cant be standing in the lane because of defensive 3 seconds. I understand what you are saying but he cant be on the help line because of that. He needs to stay outside of the paint. I think that defensive help is more for the drive. The NBA is set up to lend itself to 1 on 1 matchups and that is what this is. If this were a college game, the guys would be on that help line and ready to take a charge. Its more a problem with NBA basketball than anything else. Defensive 3 seconds is a terrible rule, and the game is reflecting that with the lack of defensive help. Just my opinion. I really love this game and how it plays defensively.

[DC]

He should SHOW in the lane and get back OUT of the lane. Thats what happens in the NBA. He can't CAMP out in the paint like it is HS or College but being there for a 2 count and then leaving and re-entering should be what he was doing

[Tomba]

DC, do you see new animations in the help defense department? i kinda do now. i see some more jostling etc...