Let's Seriously Discuss The Issues With Help Defense

[DC]

Ok I have been doing some testing. I am in tutorial mode basically scrimmaging. I have both controllers set to one team.

I am Dallas and the CPU is Indiana.

For Dallas I put this lineup in the game.
PG - Damp
SG - Diop
SF - Singleton
PF - Shawne Williams
C - Bass

I did this to test if it mattered if the away from the ball offensive player being a bad shooter mattered how much the CPU helped off.

I am controlling Bass with the ball in the left corner. I placed Diop in the right corner, almost out of bounds. The player that is defending Diop is NOT in the lane as he should be. Both feet are clearly outside of the paint and he is a little more than a arm's length away from Diop. This is a fundamental issue here. He should have BOTH feet in the paint ready to help out if Bass beats his man off of the dribble.

Now I am moving Diop away from the corner to the wing. Again, his defender is still not in the paint is is practically one arm's length away from Diop.

I move Diop to half court. Now the defender has a foot on the 3PT line opposite wing from where the ball is.

I tried these scenarios with various combinations of
Help Defense Global Sldier @ 100 and 0
Coach Profile Sliders @ 100 and 0
Defensive Awareness Sliders @ 100 and 0

I don't know if it can really be fixed this year.

So maybe if some of you can test it out and see for yourself that help defense is seriously broken if you don't believe me

[thriller92]

What you're talking about is zoning a side of the floor, leading an isolated player into the help defence. I think that aspect of the game is still a few years away because that's next level defence which, I'd say, 60% of the teams dont even use. Only the great teams do this and do it well because they know where to rotate next because theyre so in sync, such as the Spurs, Celtics, and now the Lakers.

Most of us are talking about when you drive past your man, there should be at least 2 more lines of defence before you can even think about driving in for a layup(vs having a help defender being there before the move is even made which is what youre talking about). Instead of the defenders on the side being glued to their man, they should recognize theres been a blowby and help off their man, causing a drive and kick opportunity for the ball handler, forcing the defence to make at least one rotation to the next pass.

What your talking about is a very advanced strategy which involves 2k taking their game to the next level and really having the defensive awareness at an all time high. Itd be amazing if they ever put this kind of strategy in the game but I think its a couple years away from that kind of awareness from the AI to happen. They still have to fix the way the cpu is glued to their man and not recognizing whats happening with the ballhandler part of the defence still.

[DC]

The reason why the defender doesn't get there in time to help his teammate who just got beat off the dribble is because he was never in the help position to began with.

Quote:

They still have to fix the way the cpu is glued to their man and not recognizing whats happening with the ballhandler part of the defence still.

If he is damn near glued to his man, there is no humanly possible way he can get into the paint to help out his teammate.

So the issue is that players are not even in POSITION to help their teammates out BEFORE the player gets beat off the dribble.

Thats the issue

[J.R. Locke]

I always go to the CPU side and set each player so the CPU defends them with the right spacing.

Set guys who can't shoot to sag off
all the rest to the middle one (tight I think it is called this year)

Sometimes I set deny ball to dominate big guys. My USER PF is a stud and I have deny ball and double team in paint for him against most teams. This makes it hard for him to score like it should be.

That is how I correct the problem. I won't go into a serious discussion about help defense issues because it is pointless right now. If 2k's personel came on here and asked I would gladly detail it but that involves coaching strategies (we don't want just one kind of help defense....its all about strategies to me).

Tweak the game to your liking.

[jfsolo]

Now I see what people are talking about when then they say its "Broken". I guess its a matter of semantics, but I guess what they are really saying is that there is a fundamental design flaw in how players sag or play defense on the weak side. So players in close proximity of a player driving will give solid help, but the paint isn't as crowded as it should be on a lot of plays, because of the lack of correct weak side sagging, thus making the drive and kick game much less effective then it should be. So we need to try to get the word out to VC that they need to rewrite the code when it comes to how defenders sag or cheat on the weak side. Off the ball defense does need to be tuned in several areas.

[ryanm1058123]

Help defense works great in this game when you are a PG and you beat your man off the dribble and you head towards the basket. A big guy always comes to help all the time. What the problem is, is that the wing players guarding the perimeter players do not help, at all, and that on offense your typical 3 point shooters aren't far enough from the basket at times. They are away a foot away from the 3pt line when they should be behind it, AT TIMES. I'm not saying they should always be sitting at the 3pt line but they should be there a lot more than usual.

Lets take an example. Yesterday, I was playing as the bulls. Had Rose at PG, and I had a lineup where Tyrus was playing C. the PG got beat off the dribble, the center (or PF, it kind of rotates who comes for the help) steps up for the help. But Tyrus Thomas is on the left wing, by the 3pt line. The SF guarding him sticks on him like hot glue. That is a giveaway situation where the wing player guarding Tyrus should come to help and leave Tyrus WIDE open.

So basically what I'm saying is, help defense is 50% there. We just need the other 50% to work.

[DC]

I do that as well JR; but even when they SAG OFF of a player they are not sagging off into the lane when the ball is on the opposite side of the court.

Why is it pointless discussion? Next year will be here soon. They might not understand what is causing the issue. That is why we give feedback to help them out. Don't think we are talking for nothing. Many ideas we have mentioned have made it into the games. (Me crying about being able to edit standing dunks and the Human/Human Jab Step issue). You have a voice man.

[dragonsruleme]

2K seriously needs to consider hiring some of the people on from this board. They know the game inside and out and know all the flaws the game has. I guess they wouldn't like being told what is wrong with their game by a non developer, but it'd help having knowledgeable feedback. Whoever is doing it now, doesn't seem to be too good at catching these flaws.