Threshold slider and wide open passing explained

Collapse

Recommended Videos

Collapse
X
 
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts
  • Oraeon1224
    Pro
    • Jul 2008
    • 861

    #1

    Threshold slider and wide open passing explained

    I do extensive testing of sliders. In prior years I have always used threshold to adjust LB to WR speeds to try to mimic published data. I usually increase mine minorly (maybe to 60) while many others insist lowering them gives a college passing game. This year I decided to test the impact of threshold on passing and made a discover that this slider is not as advertised. I invite anyone here to repeat my experiment using the following steps:

    Completion percentage on ACE formation Miami out-route against man coverage was tested as I noticed I could complete 90% of these passes on default setting as the DB never stuck with his man. When I adjusted pass coverage this actually made no difference wither 100 or 0. I did the following with coverage on 0.

    1) Set up a CB and WR with the same speed, agility and acceleration
    2) Set threshold to 0, then 50, then 100
    3) Call ACE formation Miami and pass to the out-route only against man defense this route is nearly 100% of the time uncovered as the defender misses the cut and doesn't catch up on default.
    4) Throw 20 passes and pay close attention to the coverage by the CB and calculate the number of deflections and completion percentage.

    Here are my results:
    1) Threshold 0: 100% completion, no deflections. The defender always fails to cut and then can't catch up to the WR. Pass coverage slider doesn't seem to work (change it from 0 to 100 and repeat passing 20 times to confirm this)

    2) Threshold 50: 90% completion, 1 deflection, 1 bad pass. The defender only once made the cut with the WR and was then able to deflect the ball, otherwise the same as 0. Pass coverage slider doesn't work at all (change from 0 to 100 and repeat passing 20 times to confirm this)

    3) Threshold 100: 30% completion percentage, defender made the cut 80% of the time and deflected the ball 12 times. The defender seemed to make the cut before even the WR and was in a better position on the ball. Pass coverage slider suddenly worked. By adjusting this slider the percentage of the time the CB made the cut varied drastically from 100% deflections at 100 to 30% deflections at 0.

    Conclusions:
    Threshold slider should be able to fix many of the complaints about wide open gameplay in the passing game with wide open passes if you increase this slider substantially and then adjust your pass coverage slider to tweak. I will be deciding on my chosen value in my slider thread but I encourage all slider makers to review this and test it themselves and consider if passing difficulties are present to increase threshold above 50.

    This slider is not simply adjusting the speed rating between atheletes. I have confirmed that it does this but if I make the players have the same speed, acceleration and agility this slider still remarkably improves coverage. It seems logical to conclude that this slider is somehow effecting the man and zone coverage settings or perhaps wide reciever route running. Either way it seems the only way to address any problems in the passing game, but it certainly isn't by adjusting speed.
  • Ge1dertron
    Rookie
    • Sep 2011
    • 103

    #2
    Re: Threshold slider and wide open passing explained

    I think you'll need to clarify whether you were testing this in practice or in actual games. It has been noted repeatedly that this makes a difference.

    That aside, i'd be curious to know how true this is. It seems rather odd.

    Comment

    • Dr Death
      Air Raid
      • May 2009
      • 1632

      #3
      Re: Threshold slider and wide open passing explained

      Originally posted by Ge1dertron
      I think you'll need to clarify whether you were testing this in practice or in actual games. It has been noted repeatedly that this makes a difference.

      That aside, i'd be curious to know how true this is. It seems rather odd.
      His post is interesting to say the least, but what I have never understood is why Speed Threshold is in the damn game anyway??? I mean, since so many on here want SIM... wouldn't you want players to have their own speed?

      Why EA insisted on putting this in... Hey! Let's make it so DT's can run just as fast as WR's...

      Sheesh...
      Dr Death
      Air Raid

      Comment

      • kingsofthevalley
        MVP
        • May 2011
        • 1962

        #4
        Re: Threshold slider and wide open passing explained

        Looks like a solid test, but as stated previously, what mode is this in? I only do slider tests in the mode I'm expecting to play. It makes it difficult to do because as far as I know you only can use 1 team in dynasty (oh yeah brother, I'm talking about dynasty by the way) so I can only test my sliders with whatever team is on my schedule week 1 ya know.

        Man, I don't even use the practice mode WITHIN dynasty to test, only real dynasty games. With EA, aint no telling what they have linked together or bugged the hell out lol.

        Anyway, so you're saying the speed threshold will diminish wide open passing correct? With speed threshold set to 100, the pass coverage slider can then be moved left/right and will make a difference correct? I'll check and see, but it is interesting what you have here as I've actually bumped all my sliders back to 0 to start readjusting and I'm not seeing a big difference with pass coverage which I previously had at 80/80 but now have at 5/5. My speed threshold is 15.

        Comment

        • HARTSTOPPER
          Play With Integrity
          • Aug 2008
          • 949

          #5
          Re: Threshold slider and wide open passing explained

          My problem with setting the speed threshold to 100 is that sure, you have great secondary that might play a more realistic style of game. However, then you have offensive linemen outrunning cornerbacks, and you have defensive tackles tackling WR's in the open field from behind. So, while it fixes one thing, it will most likely break another.

          Comment

          • kingsofthevalley
            MVP
            • May 2011
            • 1962

            #6
            Re: Threshold slider and wide open passing explained

            Originally posted by HARTSTOPPER
            My problem with setting the speed threshold to 100 is that sure, you have great secondary that might play a more realistic style of game. However, then you have offensive linemen outrunning cornerbacks, and you have defensive tackles tackling WR's in the open field from behind. So, while it fixes one thing, it will most likely break another.
            I was thinking the same thing but more along the lines of the RBs actually making it out of the backfield. I'm currently sitting at 35/40 for RB ability and as you know RB ability actually effects how fast the RB moves initially off of the snap and how fast he moves out of the backfield (of course along with CPU RBs ability to use moves). So with my RB setting so low, speed threshold too high might stop them from gaining any yards period.

            Just got back from the gym so I'm about to check a few things before the wife wakes up lol.

            Comment

            • BrianTX
              Rookie
              • Jul 2011
              • 67

              #7
              Re: Threshold slider and wide open passing explained

              That is an interesting test. I have found the threshold to be worthless for it's actual purpose. With the Threshold at 25 my WR with 98 speed was caught from behind by a FS with 85 speed.

              Comment

              • Matt10
                Hall Of Fame
                • Apr 2006
                • 16664

                #8
                Re: Threshold slider and wide open passing explained

                Best way to test this is to see the difference in succession of the option and screen plays by the CPU in a game mode that isn't practice. I think in some cases though you will have to take the good with the bad. Either having slow DBs catching up with fast WRs, or having successful screen/option plays by the CPU.

                I also think it's not solely the speed threshold that determines this.
                Youtube - subscribe!

                Comment

                • thelasthurtknee
                  MVP
                  • Jun 2003
                  • 1459

                  #9
                  Re: Threshold slider and wide open passing explained

                  Originally posted by Dr Death
                  His post is interesting to say the least, but what I have never understood is why Speed Threshold is in the damn game anyway??? I mean, since so many on here want SIM... wouldn't you want players to have their own speed?

                  Why EA insisted on putting this in... Hey! Let's make it so DT's can run just as fast as WR's...

                  Sheesh...
                  death how many sliders did you use last year that had threshold at default? idk if any were any were even done at 50 because ea's default was garbage. you seem to have forgotten that before they added we had dlinemen running down rb's on heisman.

                  good work as always oraeon. i dont thing that the threshold would be at 100 by his findings. more like 70. threshold wasnt a issue high last year as it actually made gameplay better but i didnt find that out till later in year. but the big thing the passing game needs the threshold because the coverage slider doesn not work. but the rushing and blocking do so we can use those to adjust. its already very easy to run and at 70 or 80 on heisman dlinemen wont run you down.

                  Comment

                  • jahswill
                    Rookie
                    • Dec 2004
                    • 625

                    #10
                    Re: Threshold slider and wide open passing explained

                    Since it has been established that Heisman gives the CPU a speed advantage, it seems to me that default threshold would be ideal. Based on the research presented?
                    JahsWill

                    Comment

                    • Dr Death
                      Air Raid
                      • May 2009
                      • 1632

                      #11
                      Re: Threshold slider and wide open passing explained

                      Originally posted by thelasthurtknee
                      death how many sliders did you use last year that had threshold at default? idk if any were any were even done at 50 because ea's default was garbage. you seem to have forgotten that before they added we had dlinemen running down rb's on heisman.
                      And that's EA's fault for making unrealistic abilities and putting them in the game. Just because they do something stupid doesn't mean they should be allowed to do something else stupid to compensate for it.

                      And for what it's worth, I always play w/ that threshold at 0, which is the most realistic in terms of speed. I'll need to see more info in regards to the OP though.
                      Dr Death
                      Air Raid

                      Comment

                      • thelasthurtknee
                        MVP
                        • Jun 2003
                        • 1459

                        #12
                        Re: Threshold slider and wide open passing explained

                        Originally posted by Dr Death
                        And that's EA's fault for making unrealistic abilities and putting them in the game. Just because they do something stupid doesn't mean they should be allowed to do something else stupid to compensate for it.

                        And for what it's worth, I always play w/ that threshold at 0, which is the most realistic in terms of speed. I'll need to see more info in regards to the OP though.
                        but last year was not realistic at all at 0. based on the tons of research the op did last year and posted. it just felt better because of the terrible angles and catch up speed on heisman which was really better angles and quicker reads. 0 was very easy to run on last year.

                        if i remember right, last year threshold was actually good at 50 with speed at normal. at least that gave you the most accurate to real life speed differences.

                        and putting something else to help us make the game harder is a good thing. now it gives us the ability to make coverage better if you want. something we would not be able to do without it. also some guys like putting their sliders to a easy setting and make the threshold higher to prevent all the big plays. you could also set it low and have very hard sliders and still get big plays. is a great addition and wasnt added to fix a issue they created. was added so we could custimize to our ability rating. ea cant make a game outta box that plays good for everyone.
                        Last edited by thelasthurtknee; 07-11-2012, 01:09 PM.

                        Comment

                        • thelasthurtknee
                          MVP
                          • Jun 2003
                          • 1459

                          #13
                          Re: Threshold slider and wide open passing explained

                          Originally posted by jahswill
                          Since it has been established that Heisman gives the CPU a speed advantage, it seems to me that default threshold would be ideal. Based on the research presented?
                          wrong does not give anyone a speed advantage. that was never said or established. its stricly awarness boost which effects angles and responsiveness (play recognition).

                          and based on the research presented you want to throw 90% completions and the never have the db's break on your passes?

                          Comment

                          • Chedapalooza
                            MVP
                            • Jul 2011
                            • 2467

                            #14
                            Re: Threshold slider and wide open passing explained

                            Originally posted by thelasthurtknee
                            but last year was not realistic at all at 0. based on the tons of research the op did last year and posted. it just felt better because of the terrible angles and catch up speed on heisman which was really better angles and quicker reads. 0 was very easy to run on last year.
                            0 was SO EASY to run on omg.

                            I always advocated a higher thresh (at least 50 default) bc otherwise thR game was too easy Amd I ended up with NCAA leading rusher no matter who I played with or how many house rules I created!

                            Can't wait for oraeons set
                            J-E-T-S
                            WCSU Football '10-'11 WR#87
                            UCONN HUSKIES Football
                            D2 Football Coach (receivers) in the PSAC

                            Comment

                            • Oraeon1224
                              Pro
                              • Jul 2008
                              • 861

                              #15
                              Re: Threshold slider and wide open passing explained

                              I Think my main point was missed. I used a same rated cb and wr. This means the coverage effect is not from closing the gap in speed but something else. I am going to test a dl vs wr today to see if it effects speed at all.

                              Comment

                              Working...