ESPN Top 100 list

[PabloLFC]

I think that last part was about Sugar Ray Robinson. Hand to hand combat?

[J_Posse]

My issue is why point at legitimate great players that did it for a majority, if not the entirety, of their careers, yet ignore the placement of Curry and Westbrook, AlexBrady?

I'm not going to bash older players that were great just to prop up my favorites, but I will point to the obvious bias to the current era when this list was published/created. Even LeBron is too damn high when he is probably only half way through his career and has begun to truly decline.

I would list any of the all-time greats you mentioned, AlexBrady, but not at the expense of David Robinson, Karl Malone, Kevin Garnett, Kevin Durant, etc. Instead, they should be in place of Curry (too high), Westbrook (too high), Kevin Love (shouldn't be on list, yet), James Harden (same), Blake Griffin (same) and Marc Gasol (LOL).

from Spurs Nation/Bills Backer HQ

[ojandpizza]

At the same time why not put those guys on the list just because they haven't retired? Grant Hill, Bill Walton have about as much relevance to the league as them, as well as other players on this list with relatively short primes.

Unless a career ending stat total, or ring count dramatically sways your voting process then I don't have a problem with those guys being there. I don't think the list in general is supposed to be a measuring stick of necessarily the totality of each players careers, but maybe more swayed to how good the players were at their best.. Otherwise Kareem and Russell would be 1 and 2 no? Bill Walton, Grant Hill, T-Mac, Bernard King they wouldn't even be on the list.

Curry is really the only one who sticks out as possibly not having "enough" as he's really only had a season and half playing at a level that would qualify him to be listed with these guys. But this is nothing new, Shaq was nominated a top 50 player ever after like 3 years in the league.

For example, Blake Griffin could retire tomorrow and he would still in my opinion be deservingly ranked above Kemp. I don't need to see what he does when he's 35 to make that placement. Kemp had some deeper playoff pushes than Blake has had, but I don't think that's supposed to be the measuring sick here.


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[AlexBrady]

Westbrook has no business being in the top 50, I missed spotting his placement. He forces shots, forces dribbles and passes, and is an erratic shooter. Stephen Curry looks to be a legitimately great player though, if ranked a tad too high. I am very impressed with the current state of Curry's game.

I am not a fan of Karl Malone, Kevin Garnett, and David Robinson as most of you know. Kevin Durant, to me, is much better than George Gervin ever was. I think he is a great one, though he lacks overwhelming strength.

My particular interest in the list mainly covered the top 50.

Shawn Kemp's game was more advanced than Blake Griffin's. Kemp was stronger, a better shooter, low post player, and shot-blocker.

[ojandpizza]

I feel the complete opposite. Blake's game is more advanced than Kemp's. Kemp threw his body around, and relied on his athleticism to always go 100 miles an hour. Every gripe you have about Westbrook was Kemp in a power forward version times 10. Though even Westbrook has fixed the majority of his flaws at this point, something Kemp never did.

Kemp was not a good shooter. Idk what you were seeing when you watched him play but he was incredibly inconsistent. I just posted his poor numbers in my last post, and even those percentages are likely a result of the occasional games where he was hot. There was nothing consistent about him.

He was a better low post scorer, but mostly because he used his body better than Blake does. Blake is just as efficient in the paint, he just doesn't rely on his strength the way Kemp did. And honestly as long as DJ is around we won't know what Blake's ceiling as s low post scorer will ever be.

Blake is a better shooter, passer, rebounder, ball handler. He legitimately has guard-forward ball handling and passing abilities.. Something Kemp always had the talent to have but never mastered it and routinely turned the ball over. Actually I'm quite sure his turnovers would far outweigh his assists. He never made smart decisions.

I always considered Blake and Kemp fairly comparable. But the way Blake has evolved the past few years he's clearly become the better player. What he did when Chris Paul missed extended time proved that he can carry a team himself and looked far better than Kemp at any point of his career during that stretch.


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[AlexBrady]

Kemp was quick, fast, strong, and explosive. He was 6-10 and 280 pounds. He could establish and maintain deep post position which Griffin cannot do. He had tighter spin moves and smoother turnarounds. Kemp's face up game had more pull-up possibilities than Griffin. Kemp was a much better free throw shooter. Griffin gets lost when playing off the ball defense and therefore cannot block or harass shots.

Shawn Kemp dominated one of the finest defensive teams of all time at the highest level of the sport. Griffin hasn't done that yet.

[PabloLFC]

he didn't dominate them, he averaged 23 and 10 with four turnovers. the sonics were so reliant on Payton stopping Jordan in those finals. was he the best player in that series? possibly, but he didn't dominate them, they lost 4-2.

shot blocking today isn't what it was 20 years ago either. everybody is more perimeter orientated these days, there aren't many bigs going against each other and getting blocks. Dwight being a punchline is an example of how quickly the game has shifted, he was considered a complete player 5 years ago and won 3 DPOY in a row, now it's somebody like kawhi because the perimeter is much more important in today's game


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[ojandpizza]

Quote: Originally Posted by AlexBrady

Westbrook has no business being in the top 50, I missed spotting his placement. He forces shots, forces dribbles and passes, and is an erratic shooter

This is more Westbrook 3-4 years ago.

Anybody who still makes these claims about him I legitimately feel they either blindly refuse to change their opinions on him or simply aren't watching him play enough. The way he's changed his ability to read when to pass vs when to shoot, and when to go 100 miles per hour and when to change pace is probably the biggest change in any player I've watch in my lifetime.

Not only is he still an elite scorer but he's became a top level playmaker as well. He's 2nd in the league in assists despite Durant coming back and his usage dropping from what it was last year. (People claimed his usage was why he had assists and triple doubles last season). He leads the league in tripe doubles. Best rebounding guard in the league, one of the best defensive guards in the league, his assist to turnover ration is better than any of the top guards behind Rondo and Paul, he's 3rd in the league in points created off assists, 2nd in the league in passes that lead to assists or free throws. He has arguably became the most lethal combination of scoring and passing that the league has right now.

In fact, if you combine his points per game and points generated from assists per game he's actually ahead of Curry. He's also responsible for a larger portion of his teams points, roughly 42% of them compared to Curry's 39% of his. This is all with his usage lower than Curry's as well.

Not sure if I would land him in my top 50 for his career, but the past two seasons he has had have been nothing short of incredible. There are plenty of other players on this list who could never consistently dish out the type of all around effectiveness Russ has shown the past two years.



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