ESPN Presents: The Last Dance, a 10-part documentary on 97-98 Chicago Bulls

[ehh]

Quote: Originally Posted by DieHardYankee26

I don't have an issue with Barkley's "I am not a role model" campaign either. But Jordan's campaign was "Be Like Me". Does that not factor in at all to his "responsibility"? It doesn't for me, but it's ironic if nothing else.

In the very innocent age of the early 90s I think it's safe to say that campaign was lighthearted and had nothing to do with serious off the court issues.

[King_B_Mack]

People only give a damn about celebrities/athlete’s opinions when they agree with whatever viewpoint they’re looking at an issue at. So all that criticism about “platform” using or not using goes right out the ****ing window for me. We’ve become a society that simply can’t stop bitching about SOMETHING.

People will criticize Jordan and other athletes for not taking a political stand or any other off court stances in one breath and tell them to “shut up and dribble” in the next.

An actual criticism of President Obama was that he was a celebrity president and he shouldn’t be tweeting as president of the United States. Same people turn around vote in a reality tv starring, twitter obsessed man as president and haven’t batted an eye.

LeBron James and other athletes/celebrities donate millions of dollars a year to charities the world over and help all sort of families in need. People will criticize them for doing it for the cameras and how it’s not genuine because the news is reporting it. Yet if they do it quietly without attaching their name to it like Michael Jordan and Prince have done for YEARS they’ll criticize them for not doing anything because they’ve never seen or heard about them doing it on news outlets that they watch/read.

Bottom line. Who gives a **** what people think about how athletes use their platforms or not?


Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports

[stlducks]

Interesting article on ESPN'S website today about Rodman and Pippen. Pippen has been silent about the documentary since it was released, Rodman thinks the doc is showing Pippen in a bad light and underappreciated him.

It does show Pippen as selfish (putting off the surgery, contact dispute, not entering the game when he didn't get the shot) and weaker than MJ (migraine game).

Leaves Rodman's final question up for debate. Does Pippen like MJ today? Do they even get along anymore?

[Jeffx]

Quote: Originally Posted by ProfessaPackMan

Every black athlete/celebrity doesn’t need to be Ali and we shouldn’t expect them to be just because they got a little bit of money in their pocket

But they shouldn't buck dance and stick their heads in the sand, either. If you see something that really messed up, say something (like what recently happened in Georgia). Remember, it doesn't matter how much money you got, it won't shield you, your family or friends from getting, to quote Paul Mooney, that "****** Wake-Up Call".

[J_Posse]

Quote: Originally Posted by ojandpizza

Barkley doesn’t get his due because people have gone completely overboard with the ridiculous “but rings” arguments. Dude was league MVP with 3 other top 5 finishes and loads of all NBA teams. He was MVP of the dream team. Just look at where some of his career marks land him. Career PER Chuck 12th for reference Kobe is 27th, career offensive rating 11th, career offensive win shares 12th, career total win shares 17th for reference Kobe is 19th, career box +/- 14th for reference Kobe is 29th, career offense box +/- 7th for reference Kobe is 16th, career VORP 11th for reference Kobe 12th. Not saying you need to put all creditability to stats like those but Chuck has the statistical makeup of a top 30 player to ever play the game. Was a legit MVP candidate in a league of Hakeem, Jordan, Ewing, Malone, Shaq, Drexler, etc, was the best player on a finals team that lost to a dynasty.. Sadly he’s had to hear the “no rings” stuff about his career for so long that he’s recently let that bleed into his own takes on other players as well. But for whatever reason it feels like the “no rings” arguments come down harder on him than guys like Stockton or Malone for example, or someone like Iverson who doesn’t even belong in those types of conversations to begin with. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Draymond is no where near peak Barkley's level. Green is in the camp with Rodman & Wallace, elite role players that need to be around one, two or three superior players to succeed.

He is one of the most system dependent "stars" ever, yet has to audacity to insult better, more talented all-time greats like Barkley & Paul Pierce.

I can't wait until the tail end of Green's career comes (it is already here, TBH) & the fawning over his defense and impact ends.

Man, you forgot David Robinson amongst those 90's greats.

Sent from my SM-G935V using Operation Sports mobile app

[aloncho11]

Quote: Originally Posted by stlducks

Interesting article on ESPN'S website today about Rodman and Pippen. Pippen has been silent about the documentary since it was released, Rodman thinks the doc is showing Pippen in a bad light and underappreciated him. It does show Pippen as selfish (putting off the surgery, contact dispute, not entering the game when he didn't get the shot) and weaker than MJ (migraine game). Leaves Rodman's final question up for debate. Does Pippen like MJ today? Do they even get along anymore?

The migraine incident is peculiar, his dad had passed only a few days before and he was in severe emotional stress.

[ProfessaPackMan]

Quote: Originally Posted by Jeffx

But they shouldn't buck dance and stick their heads in the sand, either. If you see something that really messed up, say something (like what recently happened in Georgia). Remember, it doesn't matter how much money you got, it won't shield you, your family or friends from getting, to quote Paul Mooney, that "****** Wake-Up Call".

I guess that’s where me and you differ.

You want them to speak out on every issue and be knowledgeable about each issue that affects us and if they’re not, then they’re either selfish, worried about their brand or ignoring the community whereas I’m not going to vilify someone if they decide to focus strictly on their craft and that’s it. Just be consistent with it, don’t be no part time activist only when it benefits you like some athletes are(Lebron).

[ojandpizza]

Quote: Originally Posted by J_Posse

Draymond is no where near peak Barkley's level. Green is in the camp with Rodman & Wallace, elite role players that need to be around one, two or three superior players to succeed. He is one of the most system dependent "stars" ever, yet has to audacity to insult better, more talented all-time greats like Barkley & Paul Pierce. I can't wait until the tail end of Green's career comes (it is already here, TBH) & the fawning over his defense and impact ends. Man, you forgot David Robinson amongst those 90's greats. Sent from my SM-G935V using Operation Sports mobile app

You're right I could have included Robinson. I was making my list based on when Barkley was getting more MVP love, which was late 80's-93, but since I threw Shaq in that group Robinson crossed into that mix for a couple seasons as well.

I think it's hard to always justify how much credit to give role players if they are indeed pushing a team to championship levels, but that's probably a discussion for a different place. I definitely don't think it's quite as cut and dry as labeling one guy a star and one a role player, but I do agree with your point in this case.