The HoFer "Doug Flutie"

[TheWatcher]

Quote: Originally Posted by jmood88

I really don't see what difference the name makes, it seems like the only people who care about that are CFL fans who are mad that minor league stats don't matter.

We may not think the CFL has a strong talent level, but it's still not a minor league and never was. It is still professional football.

[TheWatcher]

Quote: Originally Posted by jmood88

That's not what he's talking about though, none of those players got in because of what they did in other leagues.

I have to disagree there. If you took the AFL out of the equation it's extremely doubtful any of those AFL'ers would've ever made the HOF. And of course there is Billy Shaw who never played a down in the NFL, but was inducted based 100% off of his AFL career.

It's been said that Warren Moon's CFL stats were taken into account heavily during the voting process. It's well known that the talent level in the CFL is low now, but the voters knew that when Moon played there this wasn't the case.

[Cebby]

Quote: Originally Posted by TheWatcher

I have to disagree there. If you took the AFL out of the equation it's extremely doubtful any of those AFL'ers would've ever made the HOF. And of course there is Billy Shaw who never played a down in the NFL, but was inducted based 100% off of his AFL career.

I don't think anyone was talking about the AFL given that they merged with the NFL.

Quote:

It's been said that Warren Moon's CFL stats were taken into account heavily during the voting process. It's well known that the talent level in the CFL is low now, but the voters knew that when Moon played there this wasn't the case.

Then HoF voters are moronic. Being top 6 in the major passing categories and a 9 time Pro Bowler is generally good enough. I don't know if there are any recent skill players with those qualifications who haven't made the Hall after about 5 years of eligibility.

[TheWatcher]

Quote: Originally Posted by Cebby

I don't think anyone was talking about the AFL given that they merged with the NFL.

You missed the context.

Mattieshoes mentioned several AFL players that are in the AFL. Jmood said that those players aren't in because of the AFL, but several certainly are, and Billy Shaw is the best example since he never played in the NFL.

Quote: Originally Posted by Cebby

Then HoF voters are moronic.

That's not news. They didn't vote in Art Monk for a long time, I think that says all we need to know. But that's beside the point.

Quote: Originally Posted by Cebby

Being top 6 in the major passing categories and a 9 time Pro Bowler is generally good enough. I don't know if there are any recent skill players with those qualifications who haven't made the Hall after about 5 years of eligibility.

I'm not 100% sure he would've made it just on the NFL stuff alone. You may be surprised to find a few guys with numbers just as impressive who won more playoff games to boot, and they're not in the hall.

Like I said, the voters did take his CFL numbers into account and there was nothing moronic about it. Everyone from that era knows that the CFL had a lot of strong talent back then. The CFL was a strong pro league at that time, and Warren Moon won 5 consecutive titles during that time. If anything, not acknowledging that would've been moronic on their part, on top of being elitist.

[jmood88]

Quote: Originally Posted by TheWatcher

I have to disagree there. If you took the AFL out of the equation it's extremely doubtful any of those AFL'ers would've ever made the HOF. And of course there is Billy Shaw who never played a down in the NFL, but was inducted based 100% off of his AFL career. It's been said that Warren Moon's CFL stats were taken into account heavily during the voting process. It's well known that the talent level in the CFL is low now, but the voters knew that when Moon played there this wasn't the case.

I don't count the AFL as being seperate since they merged and became the NFL that everyone knows.

[daflyboys]

Quote: Originally Posted by jmood88

I don't count the AFL as being seperate since they merged and became the NFL that everyone knows.

Agreed.... especially considered that they won 2 out of the first 4 Super Bowls after the juggernaut Packers started coming down to earth.

[wwharton]

Quote: Originally Posted by FootballSchemer

I never said that, I said PRO FOOTBALL HoF!

This is what you said:

Quote:

the man is truly the best ever...

[TheWatcher]

Quote: Originally Posted by jmood88

I don't count the AFL as being seperate since they merged and became the NFL that everyone knows.

Quote: Originally Posted by daflyboys

Agreed.... especially considered that they won 2 out of the first 4 Super Bowls after the juggernaut Packers started coming down to earth.

Yes, I agree with the thought process, yet it doesn't negate that if you took many of those guys AFL careers away they wouldn't be in the Hall of Fame. For example, take again Billy Shaw. Never played a down in the NFL, and made it into the hall based solely on his AFL play. If there were no AFL, would he have made the hall?

Hard to say because even though he was drafted by the Cowboys of the NFL, too, the Cowboys sucked during the time he played. It's tough for players on bad teams to get recognized except for on rare occasions where a players excellence is too great to ignore. The Bills however were a tough team with a lot of talent (back-to-back AFL titles, '64 & '65), so he had talent around him plus a stage to show off his own.