Vince Young's bold predication

[MrNFL_FanIQ]

Quote: Originally Posted by ZB9

They count snap bobbles in the shotgun as fumbles. He only had 3 fumbles lost. Young's completion percentage in his second year was 62 percent. That is higher than Collins' last year. Young also had the same amount of passing yards in his second year as Collins had last year, and the same amount of total TDs. However, of course Collins threw less INTs. Experience = less INTs. That is why Fisher stuck with Collins, and you cant blame him. Keep harping on those stats though for a rookie and second year QB. It wasnt his overall stats that impressed people his rookie season, it was the flashes he showed in the comeback victories and close losses. It was the turnaround Tennessee had after an 0-3 start and after winning a total of 3 games the previous season. That is where the hype came from. There was a lot of excitement and energy in Tennessee all of a sudden, and some of that is because of Young. you talk about stats and rankings...the Titans' defense was ranked dead last in the league that season in total defense, yet we all know that the defense had a lot of good moments that season obviously. You cant always tell everything from stats in a vacuum. Sometimes you have to actually watch the games. http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/statis...=2006&season=2

So here you are again claiming I don't watch games, that's classy. Considering I had NFL Sunday Ticket and watched just about every game that could be watched.

I never said he didn't bring excitement to the Titans, but the guy is NOT a good passer. His completion percentage was much better year 2, credit him for that, but he still had an absymal amount of interceptions. His INT% (Interceptions per pass attempt) was 4.5%, only Griese and Rosenfels were worse that year (And that was worse than BRETT FAVRE from this past year)

I watched many Titans games, and they would be behind late often because of these interceptions.

Quote: Originally Posted by Nza

Well, to be honest, the hype and media attention never really factored much for me because I didn't need the media to tell me his impact - I was seeing it for myself. Maybe for others not inclined to follow the Titans themselves it was excessive, I don't know. Of course he wasn't a top 5-10 QB. I don't recall that being a claim at the time. The hype seemed more directed at the fact he was a rookie who wasn't expected to play at least until year 2. VY's running threat was hardly stopped in 07. A combination of a leg injury and an offensive change which required more reads contributed heavily. That and Vince was definitely fighting back claims he was a runner only, and wanted to try and show he wasn't. In any case, the entire 07 offense was so abysmal, it seems a little silly to look squarely at a 2nd year QB. The reality was Vince came in as a rookie and almost immeditiately changed the personality of the team, and the culture of the offense. I have absolutely no qualms saying without Vince in 06, the Titans weren't going 8-8, and they weren't going to be looking at a potential playoff spot up until week 17. No fing way.

I'll give you that he changed the culture of the team and what not. The argument is that he was/is a mediocre passer, I will stand by that to the end.

[ZB9]

Quote: Originally Posted by six

Inspite of his pathetic play, we managed to lead the much more talented Chargers 6-0 in the Wildcard game at halftime...but we lost 17-6, mainly due to VY being unable to score any TD's when we needed him too. I still say that if Kerry Collins had started that game we would have had a chance in the end to win it.

i imagine if they would have had Chris Johnson as a threat in the backfied, they would have had a better chance as well. Collins played well, but CJ made a huge difference in the offense last season, so did the new offensive coordinator.

Look at how anemic the offense looked in the playoff game last year after Chris Johnson got injured and left the game.

Quote:

Indy: VY played ok, got us in position to win with the 60 yarder in the end by Bironas.

played only "ok"? You are a Titans fan but you must have missed that one if you think he only played "ok". He played great in that game. Young converting 3rd down after 3rd down was the main reason Tennessee was in position to win that game

btw, look at the loss against Baltimore and McNair that season. Young played great and had Tennessee in position to win that one, but the Titans missed a field goal at the end and lost by one point.

Quote:

I think after that first year, defenses figured VY out...take away his running ability and he is a mediocre to bad QB.

it would be a lot more difficuult to take away his running if he is healthy and has players like Chris Johnson around him. CJ keeps defenses a lot more honest than LenDale White.

We have yet to see Young as the starter with CJ, the new WRs, and the new offensive coordinator....not to mention that Young was a second year player and experience makes a big difference for QBs.

Quote:

I do not believe he will ever play again as a starter for the Titans IMO.

we will see. I would take that bet

[Nza]

Quote: Originally Posted by MrNFL_FanIQ

I'll give you that he changed the culture of the team and what not. The argument is that he was/is a mediocre passer, I will stand by that to the end.

It sounds like you're trying to evaluate him as a 10 year veteran. His passing as a *rookie* was fine and about at the level you would expect. In 2007, he improved on his YPA, yards, massively on his % (which, combined with YPA, screams "better passer"), but suffered an increase in INTs. Despite this, a slightly better QB rating.

No, he wasn't a good passer in 07, but he had arguably the worst WR group, an overweight lazy RB, and an OC who had no business being in the NFL. Despite this, there were some areas even in passing that he did better at than KC did last season. As a 2nd year guy who probably shouldn't have even started at all in his first 2 years like Steve McNair, all things considered, he wasn't going too badly.

And what's amazing is that about sums up what we have seen from Vince Young the QB. It's easy to forget that. Had he not been injured week 1 2008, had Kerry not defied his history and failed to play efficiently, maybe we'd be looking at a totally different situation right now for Vince.

He deserves criticism for how he handled things and he may be out of luck with the Titans, but he's not some closed book of a QB who has had years and years to develop his passing. I fully expected Vince to take a good 4-5 seasons before being able to do damage as a passer just like Steve did, and from I remember that stance was a popular one coming into the league, but now it seems there is an all out attack on his abilities as soon as an opportunity to do so arrised, even if that opportunity is far more related to sideline demeanor than anything.

[MrNFL_FanIQ]

Quote: Originally Posted by Nza

It sounds like you're trying to evaluate him as a 10 year veteran. His passing as a *rookie* was fine and about at the level you would expect. In 2007, he improved on his YPA, yards, massively on his % (which, combined with YPA, screams "better passer"), but suffered an increase in INTs. Despite this, a slightly better QB rating. No, he wasn't a good passer in 07, but he had arguably the worst WR group, an overweight lazy RB, and an OC who had no business being in the NFL. Despite this, there were some areas even in passing that he did better at than KC did last season. As a 2nd year guy who probably shouldn't have even started at all in his first 2 years like Steve McNair, all things considered, he wasn't going too badly. And what's amazing is that about sums up what we have seen from Vince Young the QB. It's easy to forget that. Had he not been injured week 1 2008, had Kerry not defied his history and failed to play efficiently, maybe we'd be looking at a totally different situation right now for Vince. He deserves criticism for how he handled things and he may be out of luck with the Titans, but he's not some closed book of a QB who has had years and years to develop his passing. I fully expected Vince to take a good 4-5 seasons before being able to do damage as a passer just like Steve did, and from I remember that stance was a popular one coming into the league, but now it seems there is an all out attack on his abilities as soon as an opportunity to do so arrised, even if that opportunity is far more related to sideline demeanor than anything.

His passing as a rookie was very mediocre FOR A ROOKIE. Plus, Just because he was young doesn't mean he gets a free pass for being a horrible passer. There are plenty of rookies and 2nd year guys who were/are WAY better than him.

Plus, considering he was the 3rd overall pick, and had the media slobbering all over him, and he was a worse passer than most of the league.

If he hadn't gotten hurt, who knows what would've happened. I wouldn't been surprised if he would've struggled just as he had. But we'll never know. He might have figured it out, and never had his breakdown.

We'll have to agree to disagree here. If he gets another shot, it will probably be his last unless he figured it out. If he does, maybe he'll still have a good career. But at this point, I personally would be surprised if he isn't out of the league in 2 or 3 years.

[six]

Anemic? I guess you missed where Kerry Collins drove us into the red zone near the end of the first half for a score only to see the RB formerly known as LenWHALE White fumble the ball...we would have got atleast a field goal there, probably at TD.

He also drove us down the field for a FG attempt that Bironas missed.

He also had us inside the redzone again and Crumpler fumbled away our season...literally.

He then drove us down the field and got a field goal to tie the game in the 4th.

So, 4 good scoring chances against the dominant Ravens defense in the last 2.5 quarters after CJ's injury....not too bad IMO.

I agree wholeheartedly that we are a better offense with CJ in the game, obviously, but could VY have gave us so many scoring chances against the Ravens in that game last year after CJ got hurt? Hell no, and you know it!

As for 2006, I just remember it was a 20-17 game...I know Young threw a TD or two but it wasn't anything spectactular.

And if you think Young's 2007 season was anything but pathetic, idk what to tell you. He was awful in the Charger game, and Collins would have given us a better chance to win...for exactly the reasons I listed in the Ravens game.

And the only way VY starts for the Titans soon is if Collins is injured and God help the Titans if that happens cause we are done for.

[Nza]

Quote: Originally Posted by six

And the only way VY starts for the Titans soon is if Collins is injured and God help the Titans if that happens cause we are done for.

Nonsense. The Titans went 10-6 with that offense in 2007. The QB position on the Titans is down the list in importance - RB and OL are far more important.

[Yeah...THAT Guy]

Quote: Originally Posted by Nza

Nonsense. The Titans went 10-6 with that offense in 2007. The QB position on the Titans is down the list in importance - RB and OL are far more important.

This.

[dragon4ever]

The bottom line is this, Vince Young is a RB posing as a poor man's version of Kordell Stewart. You can tell if a QB is going to be great early on in his career. It's not like you can switch of greatness. Vince has already had two full seasons to prove his worth, and those two season that he played was anything but mediocre at best. He is a third rate QB at this point and if the Titans want to be a championship caliber team in the NFL, then they will need to either draft a QB or sign one in free agency because that drunkard they have now taking snaps is just not going to cut the mustard.