Who Are Your Top 5 Players of the 21st Century?

[Yeah...THAT Guy]

Quote: Originally Posted by untrugby

that any qb better than neil o'donnell should be listed as best player of the 2000s?

Well Kordell Stewart was the QB of some of those teams too...

[lonewolf371]

Quote: Originally Posted by Yeah...THAT Guy

No I didn't. I just think it's a point that makes little to no sense.

Yeah, plus ignoring the fact that a lot of players on those '90s teams were better than their '00s counterparts. In fact, if you look at those rosters without the quarterback I'd probably say a lot of those teams were better than the teams that actually won Super Bowls.

Quote: Originally Posted by untrugby

that any qb better than neil o'donnell should be listed as best player of the 2000s?

Because any marginal upgrade over Neil O'Donnell (such as Kordell Stewart) would have resulted in the Steelers winning multiple Super Bowls, right? Is that your point?

[untrugby]

Quote: Originally Posted by lonewolf371

Because any marginal upgrade over Neil O'Donnell (such as Kordell Stewart) would have resulted in the Steelers winning multiple Super Bowls, right? Is that your point?

kordell was proabably worse as a qb than Odonnell but thats not the point. Big Ben is much much better than those 2 and those 2 were able to lead the steelers to 4 conference championship games. So obviously Ben should be able to better than that. I mean if you listed the top 5 qbs for the 2011 season theres a good chance Ben doesnt make most peoples list. Thats why its hard to see him as a top 5 player of the 2000s

[Yeah...THAT Guy]

Quote: Originally Posted by untrugby

kordell was proabably worse as a qb than Odonnell but thats not the point. Big Ben is much much better than those 2 and those 2 were able to lead the steelers to 4 conference championship games. So obviously Ben should be able to better than that. I mean if you listed the top 5 qbs for the 2011 season theres a good chance Ben doesnt make most peoples list. Thats why its hard to see him as a top 5 player of the 2000s

Exactly.

Right now, he's probably #6 in my opinion, and this is in his prime, so I just can't fathom how the guy is Top 5 out of every position and every player in the 2000s when he's not even top 5 at his own position in the middle of his prime.

Edit: Granted it's only my opinion, but I think there's a lot of people out there that would put Rodgers, Manning, Brady, Brees, and Rivers ahead of him right now.

[The15thunter]

Quote: Originally Posted by lonewolf371

Tony Gonzalez has to be on the list for consideration. He's been a great blocker and pass catcher. You could make a good case for him being the GOAT at his position, and I would probably agree with anyone that made that case.

there's no doubt he's easily in the discussion for best tight end of all-time. however, i don't think he had a bigger impact, a better decade or is historically better than the guys i listed.

he's arguably the best player at the least important "skill" position, which is no knock on him, but you could make a case that you can build/start a team around ogden (historically dominant left tackle), reed (one of the two or three best safeties ever), polamalu (top five safety ever), tomlinson (maybe the second most versatile running back ever), terrell owens (despite his antics, he's one of the twelve best wide receivers we've seen), and randy moss (top five wideout in everyone's book, no matter their bias).

gonzo is after them, probably immediately after, but i can't put him ahead.

[untrugby]

Quote: Originally Posted by The15thunter

but you could make a case that you can build/start a team around ogden (historically dominant left tackle), reed (one of the two or three best safeties ever), polamalu (top five safety ever), tomlinson (maybe the second most versatile running back ever), terrell owens (despite his antics, he's one of the twelve best wide receivers we've seen), and randy moss (top five wideout in everyone's book, no matter their bias).

this isnt who would you start a team around though, QB is the most important position and i start a team with about 7 different QBs over any of those. none of those descriptions included best of all time as gonzo is with his position and you have to and moss in there but gonzo has more rec than moss and only 9 less than to despite being 3 years younger. Of those 3 gonzo is the only one still going and will probably be #2 all time in rec after this year. If being 2nd to only jerry rice in all-time receptions doesnt get gonzo even in the conversation of top 5 players of the 2000s nothing could ever get a TE there.

[lonewolf371]

Quote: Originally Posted by untrugby

kordell was proabably worse as a qb than Odonnell but thats not the point. Big Ben is much much better than those 2 and those 2 were able to lead the steelers to 4 conference championship games. So obviously Ben should be able to better than that. I mean if you listed the top 5 qbs for the 2011 season theres a good chance Ben doesnt make most peoples list. Thats why its hard to see him as a top 5 player of the 2000s

And he probably shouldn't because he's not particularly polished or well-honed as a passer, and it really showed in the most recent Super Bowl. But where he distinguishes himself is that he can make plays that no other quarterback can make. I can see honoring a player with some measure of greatness because he does things no one else can do.

Quote: Originally Posted by The15thunter

there's no doubt he's easily in the discussion for best tight end of all-time. however, i don't think he had a bigger impact, a better decade or is historically better than the guys i listed. he's arguably the best player at the least important "skill" position, which is no knock on him, but you could make a case that you can build/start a team around ogden (historically dominant left tackle), reed (one of the two or three best safeties ever), polamalu (top five safety ever), tomlinson (maybe the second most versatile running back ever), terrell owens (despite his antics, he's one of the twelve best wide receivers we've seen), and randy moss (top five wideout in everyone's book, no matter their bias). gonzo is after them, probably immediately after, but i can't put him ahead.

In terms of importance safeties are on the same level as tight ends, although the position has become a lot more prominent in the last decade with players like Reed and Polamalu. As for Gonzalez he has keyed some really successful KC offenses in his career. There were a lot of good players on those teams, but I would venture to say that Gonzalez was no small factor in their offensive prime.

[untrugby]

Quote: Originally Posted by lonewolf371

And he probably shouldn't.. I can see honoring a player with some measure of greatness because he does things no one else can do.

giving someone an accolade you admit they dont deserve doesnt honor them

i realize ben isnt on your list but how far would you have to go down to get to him? i have him at least 21st

Vick can do things no other QB could ever do but i wouldnt put him on the list either