All his argument does is prove our point that the entire process is a joke.
Spoiler
I have yet to hear a legit reason from anyone as to why he can't crack the Final 10(which makes this even MORE sillier than the fact that he hasn't got in yet), 2 years in a row or as to why he should "wait his turn" outside of "Others did so he has to as well"?
And this guy's reasoning is because he dropped the ball alot and because of that, that doesn't make him a 1st ballot HOFer?
Quote:
We noted earlier that one Pro Football Hall of Fame voter, Ron Borges, has finally made an on-field case for why Owens should be excluded, that he dropped too many passes. We’ve now taken some time to examine that claim, and we find it to be weak.
Although drops are not an official NFL statistic, Borges appeared to be relying on Stats, LLC, which has tracked drops since the 1990s, for his claim that “Owens not only led the NFL in drops once, he finished in the top four in drops seven other seasons during his 15-year career.” That is true, but missing the important context that league leaders in drops are often among the NFL’s best wide receivers.
After going through all the Stats, LLC, drops data for Owens’ career, I’ve compiled these notes on Owens’ dropped passes in each of his 15 NFL seasons:
1996: Owens dropped just one pass while making 35 catches as a rookie.
1997: Owens dropped five passes and wasn’t even in the Top 50 in drops. Hall of Famer Michael Irvin was second in the NFL with 11 drops, while Hall of Famer Tim Brown was tied for fourth with nine drops.
1998: Owens dropped five passes and wasn’t even in the Top 50 in drops while catching 64.4 percent of the passes thrown to him. His teammate Jerry Rice dropped eight passes and was tied for 12th in drops while catching 54.3 percent of the passes thrown to him.
1999: Owens again dropped five passes, again wasn’t even in the Top 50 in drops, and again had better marks than Rice while playing in the same offense: Owens caught 61.2 percent of the passes thrown to him while Rice dropped nine passes and caught 54.0 percent of the passes thrown to him.
2000: Owens dropped 13 passes and was fourth in the NFL in drops. Leading the NFL in drops that year with 16 was Rod Smith, who has been discussed as a Hall of Fame candidate.
2001: Owens dropped 10 passes and was tied for fourth in the NFL. (Owens also led the league in touchdown catches.)
2002: Owens dropped 10 passes, tied for ninth in the NFL. Tied with, among others, Jerry Rice, who dropped the same number of passes while having fewer catches, fewer yards and fewer touchdowns than Owens. Hall of Famer Marvin Harrison led the NFL with 16 drops.
2003: Owens dropped 11 passes and was tied for third in the NFL. He also caught 80 passes for 1,102 yards and nine touchdowns and went to the Pro Bowl.
2004: Owens dropped seven passes. There were 17 NFL players who dropped as many or more passes than Owens while catching fewer passes that season.
2005: Owens dropped five passes, tied for 36th in the NFL.
2006: Owens led the NFL with 17 drops. This is Owens’ first year in Dallas and the one and only year when it’s legitimate to argue that he dropped an inordinate amount of passes. It’s also worth noting that he led the NFL in touchdown catches.
2007: Owens dropped 10 passes, tied for third in the NFL. He also caught 81 passes for 1,355 yards and 15 touchdowns and was chosen as a first-team All-Pro.
2008: Owens dropped 10 passes, fourth in the NFL. He also caught 69 passes for 1,052 yards and 10 touchdowns.
2009: Owens dropped nine passes and was tied for fourth in the NFL. He also led an otherwise terrible Bills passing offense with 55 catches for 829 yards.
2010: Owens was tied with Brandon Marshall for third in drops. Wes Welker was first and Reggie Wayne was second.
So did Owens drop a lot of passes? Sure, especially as his career was winding down in Dallas, Buffalo and Cincinnati. But a lot of great receivers drop a lot of passes. Is Borges going to argue that Jerry Rice, Michael Irvin, Tim Brown and Marvin Harrison should be removed from the Hall of Fame because they were all on the drops leaderboards with Owens? Is Borges going to argue that Rod Smith, Brandon Marshall, Wes Welker and Reggie Wayne don’t have good career résumés because they were all on the drops leaderboards with Owens?
When you’re knocking a player because he did a lot of bad things — dropped a lot of passes or threw a lot of interceptions or fumbled a lot — it’s important to remember that you can only be in a position to do a lot of bad things if your team is relying on you a lot, and your team is only going to rely on you a lot if you’re a good player. Brett Favre is the NFL’s all-time leader in both interceptions and fumbles, but no one disputes that he belongs in the Hall of Fame.
Owens dropped a lot of passes, which tells us that his quarterbacks threw to him a lot, and he got his hands on the ball a lot. A mediocre NFL receiver doesn’t get the opportunity to drop a lot of passes because he doesn’t get open often enough for his quarterback to throw to him, he doesn’t adjust to the ball well enough to get his hands on it, and he doesn’t last long enough to stay on the field if he keeps dropping the ball.
Great receivers like Owens, Rice, Irvin, Brown and Harrison dropped the ball a lot because they got the ball thrown to them a lot. And they got the ball thrown to them a lot because they’re Hall of Famers. At least, all of them but Owens are Hall of Famers. Owens’ absence from Canton says more about voters like Borges than it says about Owens himself.
I'm saying I don't think that's as big of a factor as you and others are making it. I think it's just a screwed up system all together, and has traditionally hurt WRs more than most other positions. That right there might answer the question on Jason Taylor... not the same issue as with WRs. BUT my stance is that writers have stupid ego issues with the whole "1st Ballot" thing so I'm with you on that part. Being a definite HOFer from all we know to measure doesn't necessarily mean 1st ballot, and it's a mystery why not in some cases.
All people want to know(which I know WE won't ever find out) is why these people are making guys who are "bigger locks" to get into the HOF other than "You have to wait your turn just because that's how it's always been".
What you're saying about Ego is pretty much all I've been saying about this. That's playing a bigger role than it even should be when it comes to voting for HOF.
Never seen a dude get punched and be knocked out for 10 minutes, much less both of them...that's what seems fishy to me.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gibson88
Anyone who asked for an ETA is not being Master of their Domain.
It's hard though...especially when I got my neighbor playing their franchise across the street...maybe I will occupy myself with Glamore Magazine.
All his argument does is prove our point that the entire process is a joke.
Spoiler
I have yet to hear a legit reason from anyone as to why he can't crack the Final 10(which makes this even MORE sillier than the fact that he hasn't got in yet), 2 years in a row or as to why he should "wait his turn" outside of "Others did so he has to as well"?
And this guy's reasoning is because he dropped the ball alot and because of that, that doesn't make him a 1st ballot HOFer?
All people want to know(which I know WE won't ever find out) is why these people are making guys who are "bigger locks" to get into the HOF other than "You have to wait your turn just because that's how it's always been".
What you're saying about Ego is pretty much all I've been saying about this. That's playing a bigger role than it even should be when it comes to voting for HOF.
The significance of the egos is probably the only thing we disagree on. TO may not be top 10 considering the many who are also still waiting... I just don't think that should matter anyway. All HOF worthy players should be in the HOF imo.
So I'm probably the only person who is wasting time today thinking about this, but it's Friday, I'm bored, and it's somewhat relevant to the combine next week, so whatever:
Does anyone else feel like the NFL promotes Chris Johnson's 4.24 forty at his combine workout years ago way too much? It would seem the league wants you to believe CJ2K the fastest guy to ever play football, in a league which has had borderline Olympic-level talents like Marquise Goodwin (ran a 6.68 60m at the 2016 Millrose Games in New York) and actual Olympic talents like Bob Hayes (won a gold medal in the Olympics in the 100m with a time of 10.06 seconds).
A linear transformation isn't necessarily appropriate or 100% accurate here, but let's do it anyway: Goodwin's 40 time at that 60m (65.6 yds) pace is 4.07 seconds, and Hayes' 40 time at that 100m pace (109 yards) would be a stupid 3.63 seconds. Heck, Darrell Green ran a 5.76s in the 50m (54.68 yds) dash in 1983 as well, that converts down to 4.21.
So yeah, please forgive my extremely trivial grievances, but I had to complain somewhere lol.
02-18-2017, 10:58 AM
