Madden NFL 11 Hints From EA (IGN)

[ODogg]

BezO - those last two paragraphs on offense and defense - QFT brother!!!!!!!!

[CreatineKasey]

Quote: Originally Posted by killgod

One of the reasons behind that 76% of online players is because the offline hasn't been worth playing in next gen at all. Two buggy, shallow and uninspired modes that are as stale as the game itself. No wonder people go to online, it's really the only enjoyment you can find with the product unless you're brand spankin new to the game.

I disagree. The reason people play online is that they want to compete against other people. It's the same way for most video games outside of RPG's. Think: even games with great story modes like MGS have online options.

Sports are meant to be played against other people. The most engaging competition should and will come from another human mind trying to beat you. The computer is meant to lose. It's more depressing than anything to lose to a computer. It's meant to be beat.

Sports games aren't made like other arcade games in the past such as Donkey Kong and Galaga. In the past, playing humans was limited so the computer was extremely difficult. That's just not the case in sports games. Even so, AI logic doesn't resemble what a human would do and therefore it really takes away from the immersion IMO.

I think sports games are the pinnacle of online gaming right there with RTS. In fact, I try to view sports football games as a sports version of RTS. Playing it like a chess match is very enjoyable. Games like this thrive on human competition. The better they make the online experience, the better their product will do IMO.

[ODogg]

Well said CreatineKasey - there is no AI that will probably happen in our lifetimes that will equal the human intelligence in both logic, skill and unpredictability. That's not EA's fault, that's simply the fact across the board for all video games today. And if you think it's EA's game AI then simply peek into a FPS thread sometime and read how people complain about the computer controlled enemies and squad mates vs. those of playing with their buddies.

[Rocky]

Quote: Originally Posted by CreatineKasey

76% of Madden gamers play online. There's your answer offline franchise guys. It's not a big priority to them. I remember people claiming only 5% of Madden gamers play online and junk like that despite me arguing otherwise. Online franchise and other online functions such as game balance and solid gameplay are priorities for sure.

I wonder how many people play exclusively online and how many people play only a game or 2 online. I'm pretty sure that number is the people who have ever booted up or started an online game. A better representation would be players who have logged in 75 or more games.

You guys know that I love to play online....but life happens. There are instances where time is too valuable to get online and play a cheeser and the line of work I'm in....I can't make a league work. There are plenty of gamers who just want to sit down for a hour and be immersed. That's where I think Madden it's losing it's audience with.

:EDIT: Madden 2002 had in game saves....not to have them in Madden 11 would be INEXCUSABLE.

[Rashad19]

Quote: Originally Posted by CreatineKasey

I disagree. The reason people play online is that they want to compete against other people. It's the same way for most video games outside of RPG's. Think: even games with great story modes like MGS have online options. Sports are meant to be played against other people. The most engaging competition should and will come from another human mind trying to beat you. The computer is meant to lose. It's more depressing than anything to lose to a computer. It's meant to be beat. Sports games aren't made like other arcade games in the past such as Donkey Kong and Galaga. In the past, playing humans was limited so the computer was extremely difficult. That's just not the case in sports games. Even so, AI logic doesn't resemble what a human would do and therefore it really takes away from the immersion IMO. I think sports games are the pinnacle of online gaming right there with RTS. In fact, I try to view sports football games as a sports version of RTS. Playing it like a chess match is very enjoyable. Games like this thrive on human competition. The better they make the online experience, the better their product will do IMO.

Well said man! That's why so many of us are clamoring for improved game-play because in essence that is what gives the game life when playing against human competition. Don't get me wrong better presentation is a must but it's more of a byproduct of great game-play! No amount of crowd noise, announcing, replays, cutscenes etc....can cover up game-play issues IMHO.

[killgod]

Quote: Originally Posted by CreatineKasey

I disagree. The reason people play online is that they want to compete against other people. It's the same way for most video games outside of RPG's. Think: even games with great story modes like MGS have online options. Sports are meant to be played against other people. The most engaging competition should and will come from another human mind trying to beat you. The computer is meant to lose. It's more depressing than anything to lose to a computer. It's meant to be beat. Sports games aren't made like other arcade games in the past such as Donkey Kong and Galaga. In the past, playing humans was limited so the computer was extremely difficult. That's just not the case in sports games. Even so, AI logic doesn't resemble what a human would do and therefore it really takes away from the immersion IMO. I think sports games are the pinnacle of online gaming right there with RTS. In fact, I try to view sports football games as a sports version of RTS. Playing it like a chess match is very enjoyable. Games like this thrive on human competition. The better they make the online experience, the better their product will do IMO.

So do you suggest that if the offline mode was actually worthwhile, gamers would still go play random online games anyways?

If the Chise mode had more functional AI, proper formatting/rosters and you'd follow the real NFL 365 schedule, proper stats, mostly bug free offseasons, and a challenging opponent in the CPU that doesn't need to resort to warped animations.......

It would still be neglected in favour of random online games?


You're simply using a poor offline experience (or CPU AI) as the reasons why some people will play online, which is exactly what I was getting at. You're arguing people go online to play an opponent that isn't as ******** as the Madden CPU and more like a real human, I'm arguing people will go online because the Madden CPU is ********. Where's the disagreeance? We're saying the same thing just with a different approach to it.

Is Online Franchise not something they built because so many people ask for it? Don't tell me gamers don't wanna play a franchise mode, EA just can't put together an offline experience that's worthwhile, so it's now going to be online...which is fine if it doesn't have the same problems that aren't related to AI offline.

Madden players want to play a franchise mode, online with friends is far more exciting than offline, but regardless it's what we want, or else why the heck are they working on Online Franchise? (if you can even call it that in it's current state)

[ODogg]

The disagreement is you are faulting EA for not having AI that is comparable to a human and CreatineKasey and I are saying that is not something EA should be faulted for since no games do. Could it be better? Yes. But to fault them for offline not matching online play is unrealistic since AI in general is not there yet and probably won't be for a long, long time.

[CreatineKasey]

Quote: Originally Posted by Rocky

I wonder how many people play exclusively online and how many people play only a game or 2 online. I'm pretty sure that number is the people who have ever booted up or started an online game. A better representation would be players who have logged in 75 or more games. You guys know that I love to play online....but life happens. There are instances where time is too valuable to get online and play a cheeser and the line of work I'm in....I can't make a league work. There are plenty of gamers who just want to sit down for a hour and be immersed. That's where I think Madden it's losing it's audience with. :EDIT: Madden 2002 had in game saves....not to have them in Madden 11 would be INEXCUSABLE.

I bet most owners of Madden never play 75 games worth of football, online or offline. Most gamers aren't like us. They don't pick 1 game and put serious hours into it. There's plenty of casual gamers and guys who bounce back and forth from new games every month or two.

Massively Multiplayer Online games have kind of set a blueprint for getting a gamer to commit to your game. Think of Modern Warfare 2 and how it "unlocks" weapons and abilities as the gamer competes. That motivates many gamers to keep going. Madden's traditional matchmaking and leaderboards lack the motivation that other games give. Those progression markers are very addicting. Online Franchise is a wonderful step in that direction. Unfortunately unless you're hardcore about creating an offseason, it falls far short for most gamers. It's not for the causal fan this season.

Madden would greatly benefit from adding in some sort of "progressing over time" online function. They attempted that somewhat with the "Ultimate Team" function. Sadly, that mode didn't allow play with friends and was sorely tainted by the ability to purchase a good team. That idea can be enjoyable, but it was implemented very wrong. I'm guessing that feature is near dead at this point. Hopefully they learn from that and adjust accordingly.

If they can shave games down to 30 minutes (like Tecmo Super Bowl!) and create some kind of motivation to play games outside of 1 win on your ranked match list, they'll grow their fan base and hold onto their game owners for the better part of the season. I bet most guys are done with Madden by the end of September. I know I always was before Online Franchise.