What is SIM?

[T4VERTS]

It's kind of a loaded question honestly. I see the term used often but if I ask 10 people I could very well get 10 different answers, especially as it pertains to "SIM" leagues. I kind of wanted to set out to examine this a bit more so I created a survey that I'd love to gather feedback from you guys on if you play in a "SIM" franchise and have a moment.

It's not the greatest survey, or the most scientific, but there is a method to the madness. Some things are intentionally left vague because the term gets used so vaguely at times. I apologize in advance for typos.

https://t.co/FcUBG8BauI?amp=1
(Note Email is only required to limit multiple responses from same people and aren't being collected)

I appreciate your guys time in responding!

[Devaster]

Good luck to you. I think you will find varied answers from nearly every person that responds. That is or was the beauty of franchise mode. Every one can play it differently and have a completely unique experience.

[canes21]

I haven't finished the survey, I will, but pretty much the entire 2nd page feels like it just a bunch of house rules that are intended to keep the game balanced for the purposes of giving the illusion of sim play. I don't consider rules that limit play calling or anything like that are sim, they are simply band aids to try and fix unbalanced and unauthentic gameplay.

Sim, for me personally, is the AI being smart enough to not let the user run the same play 10 times straight for a TD. It is the X's and O's being implemented in a way that proper football knowledge and strategy is key, not finding a meta play. If the AI was competent and a user ran the same play 3 or 4 times straight for a gain each time simply because the execution of the play was so well done on a realistic level, then I believe that remains to be sim. Real life coaches, college and NFL, will call the same exact plays multiple times in a row if they spot something they can exploit.

A rule that limits play calling is just that, a rule, it isn't sim or non-sim, it's an aid for a game that is imbalanced and a a buff for an AI that can't stand on its own. Similarly, limiting the user's ability to go for it on 4th, or to run up the score is not sim either, the game needs to have proper systems in place that make real life football risks translate into risky moves on the virtual field as well. Going for in on 4th and 3 on your own 33 is risky in real life because of obvious reasons. In Madden it isn't as dangerous because of how the game is structured and how it plays out.

Again, personally speaking, when I think of sim gameplay, I really think of authentic gameplay. When I say Madden isn't sim enough, I mean it isn't authentic enough. Seeing a QB in past Madden games scrambling around and throwing darts off of their backfoot across field 50 yards downfield is not sim to me because it isn't authentic. I am fine playing a kid online that tries to scramble every dropback and throw on the run consistently if the game is authentic and he suffers from the silly decision. That is sim to me because it is authentic and he is being punished in the proper ways and he is (hopefully) learning why real life QB's don't play that way.

[roadman]

Quote: Originally Posted by Devaster

Good luck to you. I think you will find varied answers from nearly every person that responds. That is or was the beauty of franchise mode. Every one can play it differently and have a completely unique experience.

I can do that with the current offering, but I will preface it that I know a majority here want a deeper immersed mode.

I am currently playing a fantasy franchise and having a ball with it.

Sim is similar to opening a window close to a NFL stadium and watching from the exterior.

I kid, I kid, but sim is replicating NFL football.

For me, personally, I enjoy seeing the stats close to NFL football.

[T4VERTS]

Quote: Originally Posted by canes21

I haven't finished the survey, I will, but pretty much the entire 2nd page feels like it just a bunch of house rules that are intended to keep the game balanced for the purposes of giving the illusion of sim play. I don't consider rules that limit play calling or anything like that are sim, they are simply band aids to try and fix unbalanced and unauthentic gameplay. Sim, for me personally, is the AI being smart enough to not let the user run the same play 10 times straight for a TD. It is the X's and O's being implemented in a way that proper football knowledge and strategy is key, not finding a meta play. If the AI was competent and a user ran the same play 3 or 4 times straight for a gain each time simply because the execution of the play was so well done on a realistic level, then I believe that remains to be sim. Real life coaches, college and NFL, will call the same exact plays multiple times in a row if they spot something they can exploit. A rule that limits play calling is just that, a rule, it isn't sim or non-sim, it's an aid for a game that is imbalanced and a a buff for an AI that can't stand on its own. Similarly, limiting the user's ability to go for it on 4th, or to run up the score is not sim either, the game needs to have proper systems in place that make real life football risks translate into risky moves on the virtual field as well. Going for in on 4th and 3 on your own 33 is risky in real life because of obvious reasons. In Madden it isn't as dangerous because of how the game is structured and how it plays out. Again, personally speaking, when I think of sim gameplay, I really think of authentic gameplay. When I say Madden isn't sim enough, I mean it isn't authentic enough. Seeing a QB in past Madden games scrambling around and throwing darts off of their backfoot across field 50 yards downfield is not sim to me because it isn't authentic. I am fine playing a kid online that tries to scramble every dropback and throw on the run consistently if the game is authentic and he suffers from the silly decision. That is sim to me because it is authentic and he is being punished in the proper ways and he is (hopefully) learning why real life QB's don't play that way.

I’d agree if the community hadn’t spent years staking flags in rules proclaiming them “SIM”, or not SIM. That’s kind of the point, the community has used SIM to define rules, and then use their own definitions to judge other rules. If you ever look to join a league they will say things like “sim gameplay only”, like its some sort of universally understood way of playing. I’m looking to see if there is any set of rules that are universally considered “SIM”.

[canes21]

Quote: Originally Posted by T4VERTS

I’d agree if the community hadn’t spent years staking flags in rules proclaiming them “SIM”, or not SIM. That’s kind of the point, the community has used SIM to define rules, and then use their own definitions to judge other rules. If you ever look to join a league they will say things like “sim gameplay only”, like its some sort of universally understood way of playing. I’m looking to see if there is any set of rules that are universally considered “SIM”.

I agree with you and see exactly where you are coming from. I ended up answering Not Sim to every question and I think my post explains why I answered the way I did. When I say sim, I think of authenticity more than I think of limiting the user from exploiting the game mechanics. A sim game to me has authentic mechanics that guide the player towards replicating real life strategies and decisions because doing anything abnormal would be punished like it is in real life.

[Devaster]

I personally think limiting the game to just replicate real-life football isn't what "sim" should be. It should be an experience where users can replicate real football or manipulate it into something else. The user is free to do whatever they want. Of course, that assumes that Madden can even replicate real football, which it often fails to do just that. AI behavior on and off the field and the lack of true stat-tracking limit my experience.



Imposing rules on others is just that. They are opinions and nothing more. But there is no right or wrong way to play franchise mode.

[jfsolo]

I read all the questions but didn't answer them since I don't play in any Sim leagues. My take is pretty much exactly the same as canes.

Ideally Sim is a playstyle that a User chooses to employ because it optimizes their chance to have success and win games because it mirrors philosophically and in terms of execution that which we see from NFL coaches and players. The game of course needs to require this of them.

That anyone can have sustained or even any success in Madden on Sim mode by playing in a different style than that is 100% the games fault IMO. That people have to come to a gentleman's agreement to artificially limit certain behaviors in terms of gameplay and team management is also 100% a failure of the game.

I understand of course that selling more and more copies and gaining more and more revenue is the sole goal of the publisher and the high level executives, so I understand why the developers literally aren't allowed to make that type of game where illogical and non deceptive play results in the User looking incompetent in every game.

Barring a set of robust sliders and tuners that H2H leagues could modify and employ to make erratic and repetitive play a failing proposition by default I don't know what else they're going to able to do besides making rules, because by design the ease of User success removes the chance for non sim play to be self correcting.