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Madden 12 News Post


It would be putting it nicely to say that some people were unhappy about Madden's Online Franchise mode not being updated this year. But since I had the chance to speak with EA designer Anthony DiMento about Online Communities, I figured it would probably be wise to ask about the oft-discussed Online Franchise mode as well.

Below you will find the excerpt from my interview that details what the thought process was going into the development of this year's online feature set:

Quote:
Operation Sports: There's a lot of people that are unhappy about not having any updates to Online Franchise mode this year, so was it a choice between Communities and Online Franchise this year, or was it nothing like that?

Anthony DiMento: I know everybody's excuse for Online Franchise is that they look at the numbers, and nobody plays it, and it's a vocal minority of guys. But at the beginning of the year, Ian's mandate (Ed. note: Ian Cummings is the former Madden creative director) was that we had to do something for Online Team Play (OTP). So if we're going to do something for OTP, it's got to be the Clubs feature -- that's in FIFA and NHL, basically what this whole foundation is built on. So there wasn't going to be time for Clubs and a full upgrade to Online Franchise, so rather than making a few minor tweaks to Online Franchise, we were able to manipulate the Clubs feature to create Communities -- you know create that head-to-head experience that goes along with all the ranked team play stuff that Clubs brings.

I mean I think what Online Franchise is all about from what I hear, and from my experience, is about playing together -- playing with your friends and playing against a group of guys you like playing with. And the biggest complaint we hear, other than it not being updated, is that it's really hard to schedule your time; that's been the problem here at the office, too. I have a Week 6 game, and I have one guy I have to play against. I'm just like, 'Hey, John, meet me online at 8:30. We're going to play our Week 6 game because the commissioner is going to advance the week tomorrow so we have to get this done.' And then either I have to work late and I don't it make in time, or he has to go pick up his wife at the airport or something like that. Guys just aren't able to coordinate.

It's frustrating already, so we felt like Communities is still giving people that experience they want playing together without having to worry about thinking about figuring out that I have to wait for that one guy. Now you can be in a situation where you can have 2,000, or if you're in five communities, 10,000 other guys potentially that you can get a game against, and people you want to play against. So it was a matter of priorities, too. Everybody plays ranked head to head, and we had more guys play OTP last year than we had play Online Franchise mode. Basically that is what it comes down to.
My Take: This explanation doesn't let EA off the hook for things that were said about improving Online Franchise mode well before this year, but it certainly seems wise to focus on the majority of football gamers first and foremost. In many ways, it reminds me of the way Criterion tends to do things with their online features. The folks at Criterion, who are responsible for the Burnout franchise and Need for Speed: Hot Pursuit, have had a great amount of success focusing on core online experiences that you are simply able to hop in and out of quite easily. Criterion's racing games sometimes get criticized because people look at them on the surface and see something that does not really look that deep. In the end, it's really more deceptive than anything. Something like Autolog is sometimes easy to dismiss at first glance because it's a part of every single portion of the game rather than being a set mode; the same goes for "Easy Drive" in Burnout Paradise. However, if you stick around and actually play the games, you realize the simplicity gives way to a complex idea that was just implemented in such a way that it's easy to enjoy.

If Online Communities works correctly, then it should simply become a part of the way you play the game online. Imagining a scenario where you can easily hop online and get a game in against likeminded gamers either by going head to head or by going through the OTP lobby would add so much to the Madden experience online. At the end of the day, it's about ease of use. If you hop online, and then have to deal with various barriers of entry before finding a quality game, you're going to be less likely to come back. If everything is streamlined, then you come back day after day because it's quick, easy and you're having fun.

Again, it doesn't solve the problems people have with already having a small, built-in group they want to play Online Franchise mode with on a daily basis, but it seems like that's a very small number of people in the grand scheme of things for EA. So if EA can bring more people back to the online features throughout the year, then it makes more sense that those formerly unconnected people will eventually want more from their experience, and thus a greater demand will pick up for more in-depth experiences like Online Franchise mode. Lastly, if Communities somehow enables EA to further streamline the ways you can connect with potential opponents, then that will help Online Franchise mode when it does inevitably get updated.

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Member Comments
# 21 NAdkins01 @ 07/25/11 05:39 PM
As EA should note from EVERY response on here. Nobody plays the team play for any extent of time. This community feature is a complete waste of resources. I will stick with NCAA and their REALISTIC online dynasty this year. Looking forward to Madden 13 (if they get off their asses)
 
# 22 XtremeDunkz @ 07/25/11 06:01 PM
You just have to find the right franchises. I play in 4, yes 4, OF's that are filled with 32 people each, advance every 3 days, and finish 5 seasons each madden edition with full free agency and salary cap system. It can easily be done.
 
# 23 Icarus2k9 @ 07/25/11 06:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TNT713

And in defense of the 'excuse,' the biggest knock on Online Franchise is the same reason most leagues fold before finishing a season. People!!! It's tough to get 32 guys together to complete their games. Like most leagues, losers quit and leave the entire league/franchise holding the bag. EA can't fix this because they don't have access to the root cause. No software in the world will make the unreliable reliable or sore losers instant sportsmen...
I think I was in the last board discussion when you brought this up, but one of the major sticking points it seems is this constant reference to 32 player franchises. I know that's the dream, but why does it have to be? You might not be able to scoop up 31 diehards, but you would agree a number of people have a small friends list of players who may be interested in setting one up.

If EA was willing to make the mode robust and allow full offline customisation online (I'm talking sliders, either universal or tailored for each player) then you wouldn't mind playing the CPU and that 32-player dream becomes less important. I'm a Packers fan, my friend is a Steelers fan. We would have to organise five games maximum in four seasons. But because there's no locker for saves any more, we're not allowed to have a good shared franchise.

If EA are saying that the mode can only be a success if you can get 32 players rolling and rocking in the wild west that is the internet, no wonder it was doomed to failure in its current state.

On topic, thanks Chase for getting this nugget out of him - though I occasionally wish you guys would go one step further and call them on it then and there rather than later as part of your analysis. I don't know how possible that is, but nice work anyway.
 
# 24 iamgramps @ 07/25/11 07:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by NAdkins01
As EA should note from EVERY response on here. Nobody plays the team play for any extent of time. This community feature is a complete waste of resources. I will stick with NCAA and their REALISTIC online dynasty this year. Looking forward to Madden 13 (if they get off their asses)

I understand your frustration, but OS is only a small voice in the Madden community, and I believe EA makes decisions based off telemetry; therefore, they may go with what the numbers show. Can the numbers be skewed? Maybe, but there is no other justifiable way to measure the success of a games feature.

Remember, Madden sells millions, and out of those people only a small amount even know that these types of forums exist, at least in St. Louis. I know at least 30 people who play Madden on a regular basis and not one had ever heard of sites like this one. So, for every person that want online franchise, there are possible 3 that don't care or don't know how and where to voice their complaints. I'm not excusing EA, but I understand why they made this decision.
 
# 25 ChaseB @ 07/25/11 07:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Icarus2k9
On topic, thanks Chase for getting this nugget out of him - though I occasionally wish you guys would go one step further and call them on it then and there rather than later as part of your analysis. I don't know how possible that is, but nice work anyway.
What would you like me to call Anthony on here? He's not the one that made the sole decision to not update Franchise mode. My analysis after is not really hard hitting or really combative in nature in this case either. They know they are/will take heat for not updating Franchise mode.

And this isn't me being defensive here either, by all means tell me what you think you would want to see more out of with certain interviews?
 
# 26 XtremeDunkz @ 07/25/11 07:29 PM
I wish someone who had access to these guys would ask them about what they went on and on about during Madden 10 release. The fact that OF was amazing because it was all server side and they could update it at ANY TIME, even after the game has been released to add new features during the year. EA could save so much face by adding features to OF as soon as they are ready this coming year.
 
# 27 alkamist @ 07/25/11 07:34 PM
still not going to buy this yrs game, sorry but no update to Online Franchise is an upgrade of Madden 11 in my eyes, pretty much all I see is an upgraded of players, and the fixed exploits, and bugs... yea they added new stuff for Offline Franchise but come on, they could had add that as a 800 MS Pts through xbox... Maybe its time to change it up and add a update to madden 12 and have us pay 1200 MS pts for it for ONLINE Franchise which than they will be making more money because of the add on..

So in my eyes, all they did was a roster patch, and fixed exploits, and bugs that M11 had... not worth 60$ will probably wait for black friday which it will probably be dropped to 39.99...

My eyes are on this yr Fifa 12, Gears of War, and possibly 2k... Was going to buy NCAA and madden but to me was an upgraded game of rosters, and they tried to fix the bugs, and exploits of both yrs of games...

Which is easier to dl the rosters... Thanks again EA but I dont play online PVP because of the fact of Nano's and cheezers that use QB's that just run the ball all the time... whats the point, thats why we set up leagues to play people we know, Had a league set up we played 10 and 11 and had 5+ yrs going.. 15+ people in our league...
 
# 28 DUDERMAN @ 07/25/11 07:35 PM
If they really can update throughout the year (which we have yet to see), all I really would want is a slider set... which it seems in now in every mode but online franchise.

If they want to hold off on the big updates as a selling point for next year, fine. I don't like it, but I've learned to accept it.

However, it's real hard to keep people invested in the mode when 6 people go between 14-2 to 16-0 every year. A slider set would greatly help this. So everything aside... I just would like a slider set.




...but it isn't gonna happen.
 
# 29 threattonature @ 07/25/11 07:35 PM
This is such a backwards way of looking at it. If there was a better online franchise mode then maybe there would be more players online using it. The online franchise is so barebones of course you're not going to have many people giving it a try.

Once I saw how big of a joke the online franchise was I immediately sold back my Madden as well as many of my friends who I do the dynasty with. I have a 5 man dynasty and an 8 man dynasty that I usually run with NCAA Football and we were all looking forward to switching to Madden this year to give it a try.
 
# 30 blocknose @ 07/25/11 07:56 PM
i assume this is done on the server side like the Online franchise so can they at least make sliders available in online franchise mode even if it takes setting up a communitie
 
# 31 dkp23 @ 07/25/11 09:11 PM
I think it is very clear when you think about the business side of this. If the Online Franchise was updated, we all would be happy to hear the news, but if you look at the game as a whole, will it improve sales? Probably not, so why?

Take all the changes to gameplay (im not even going to say improvements because i dont think they were), some presentation changes, and update on franchise, there isnt any major feature that is BRAND NEW to the game except for upgrades that can get people to buy the game again. You can say custom playbook but any casual gamer that doesnt buy madden isnt going to be interested in it. The upgrade of items already in the game is probably not enough to help help sales because everybody is going to say "same old game". They need something new every year and every year it is another gimmick that nobody cares about. Online Communities may turn out to be successful, but lets be honest about it. It is just another playnow quick match system with a small section carved out from the whole community. So instead of a friend system, we got online communities.

If EA is listening to the community and doing it for the core madden players, why wasnt online franchise improved? People say that usage in online chise is too low to justify, but that is what the core madden gamers want! Last two years, the core madden fans have spoken, we want online franchise updated with a full set of features to make managing a franchise realistic....Remember, whether the OS community is a small portion, these communities are the CORE MADDEN FANS! If you are listening to the CORE MADDEN FANS, then you listen to sites like OS...All the other core communities are probably saying the same exact thing, EA is screwed us by not working on online chise.

If anything needs to be sacrificed, it is Superstar mode! What a waste of resources...At some point, EA needs to realize that madden's success is the core fans and they need to utilize us for free advertising. Free advertising the old fashion way - "WORD OF MOUTH"...You make the core fans happy, the core fans will get the word out to on the fence former fans and new potential fans. Turning the game into arcade football with glitches and gimmicky features wont do that and it has shown over the years with sales dropping...Or EA can always reduce the price and sell more units and spin it and say they sold more units than the previous years...There is always a spin to everything...
 
# 32 aaronrodgers012 @ 07/25/11 09:18 PM
Whats so hard about giving players a schedule and having them play that at anytime rather than week by week like 2k basketball does it or the Madden 2009 Leagues did it. Scheduling problems eliminated. Or stop making a garbage product and more people will play. Or stop making the game easier and your fan base wont continue to drop.
 
# 33 Yeah...THAT Guy @ 07/25/11 09:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by alkamist
still not going to buy this yrs game, sorry but no update to Online Franchise is an upgrade of Madden 11 in my eyes, pretty much all I see is an upgraded of players, and the fixed exploits, and bugs... yea they added new stuff for Offline Franchise but come on, they could had add that as a 800 MS Pts through xbox... Maybe its time to change it up and add a update to madden 12 and have us pay 1200 MS pts for it for ONLINE Franchise which than they will be making more money because of the add on..

So in my eyes, all they did was a roster patch, and fixed exploits, and bugs that M11 had... not worth 60$ will probably wait for black friday which it will probably be dropped to 39.99...

My eyes are on this yr Fifa 12, Gears of War, and possibly 2k... Was going to buy NCAA and madden but to me was an upgraded game of rosters, and they tried to fix the bugs, and exploits of both yrs of games...

Which is easier to dl the rosters... Thanks again EA but I dont play online PVP because of the fact of Nano's and cheezers that use QB's that just run the ball all the time... whats the point, thats why we set up leagues to play people we know, Had a league set up we played 10 and 11 and had 5+ yrs going.. 15+ people in our league...
Come on dude... it's fine that a lot of people wish they had updated online franchise more, but it isn't the end of the world. People have been waiting for offline franchise to get updated since this was on the original XBox, and there's no way in hell what they've added could just be added as DLC. They've made drastic changes to the offline franchise and from the sound of it, player tendencies and ratings as well. Plus the tackling has been improved big time as well.
 
# 34 rootofalleli @ 07/25/11 10:20 PM
This will make me unpopular, but I think they probably contemplated making substantial changes to online franchise and realized it wouldn't work.

Changing any one thing probably involves changing whatever that one thing interacts with. In the case of online franchise, I think the devs were unable to do anything terribly exciting without some kind of domino effect.

Adding communities is a separate project. It's a noticeable change that may not interact too much with other code elements. Talking about "priorities" in this context makes it sound like all changes are equally complex, when that just isn't the case.

I've tried to make changes in how we do things where I work, and sometimes really important changes that I know would make our clients happier are just not possible in the short term. Not unless we're willing to break a lot of our functional systems, anyway.
 
# 35 Bonee @ 07/25/11 11:05 PM
In the end, where is the difference between OTP and my PSN Buddylist?
 
# 36 splff3000 @ 07/25/11 11:24 PM
Sooo, it seems like people aren't having a hard time scheduling OD games in NCAA. I'm just saying.
 
# 37 Redcapedwonder @ 07/26/11 12:37 AM
Excuse me as I clean the bull**** dripping off this post and onto my key board. This is the biggest crock I've ever read. This is the BIG announcement? Online Communities?! This is the most ******** update in Madden since they came out with those player speciality categories that lasted a year. How can you not change Online Franchise AT ALL?! NCAA has had a FLAWLESS ONLINE DYNASTY for FOUR YEARS NOW. The reason nobody plays Online Franchise in Madden is the same reason nobody played Online Team Play - BECAUSE IT SUCKS!!!!!!! How can you put a unfinished product our there, keep it out there for three years, AND NOT CHANGE IT?! It's an EMBARRASSMENT that a professional company can do such a thing. I've never been so frustrated. The Online Team Play mode was a joke last year too. The games weren't ranked, there were no clubs, and the matchmaking was atrocious! You had to find a team in a chat room then invite everybody to play and hope it all came together! C'mon! That's horrible! EA should fire the entire Madden staff and pay the NCAA guys double time to work on it.

I love the NFL, but I play NCAA because the Online Dynasty is the best game mode in any sporting game. I've been waiting for a good Online Franchise for years, and every year - ugatz. But you know what's worse that EA doing this year after year? Us going out there and buying it. Im 25 years old. I've been playing Madden since I was in grade school. I've constantly attended midnight releases. This year I AM NOT DOING IT! I'm done! I'll play NCCA all year long. Can you remember the last time there was a general overall positive vibe prior to the Madden release, because I can't. Make a stand, hold strong, and don't buy it.

Attention Mods - I know my post was a little harsh, but it had to be said. I apologize if i've offended anybody other than the EA Sports Madden Development team.
 
# 38 Yeah...THAT Guy @ 07/26/11 12:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redcapedwonder
Can you remember the last time there was a general overall positive vibe prior to the Madden release, because I can't.
Yes... pretty much every single year people look forward to Madden, hence the midnight releases that you yourself mentioned...
 
# 39 jerryrice4949 @ 07/26/11 12:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChaseB
What would you like me to call Anthony on here? He's not the one that made the sole decision to not update Franchise mode. My analysis after is not really hard hitting or really combative in nature in this case either. They know they are/will take heat for not updating Franchise mode.

And this isn't me being defensive here either, by all means tell me what you think you would want to see more out of with certain interviews?
Since you asked. I would like someone to challenge EA next time they mention "the numbers" when it comes to online franchise. Well of course the numbers suck it was a completely unfinished feature/mode. It is not bare bones it is completely incomplete; what does EA expect the numbers to look like. That would be like NCAA calling something online dynasty without recruiting. I would like someone to ask them if they think the low utilization to what they call online Franchise is because it is really not a franchise mode at all!

I think the designer from EA missed the whole point of online franchise. It is more than a couple of friends getting together. It is about getting together with people you know and or like and building a team year after year. It is about a whole new level of immersion. It is the whole point of a franchise mode whether online or offline.

Every time I hear about the numbers I want to scream. Make an actual online franchise and then lets see what the numbers are.
 
# 40 DaSmerg @ 07/26/11 03:07 AM
It's sometimes pretty frustrating when you see these truncated interview pieces with the Madden dev's because it is times like this, about topics that us gamers are passionate about like Franchise mode and it's most natural progression in the late 20th century, Online Franchise mode, that leave that bitter taste of WTH did he/she say?

With all due respect to @TNT713, while an eloquent response, it really doesn't hold water. To purely base your business development model on simple empirical analysis is basing a serious development decision on half the truth and is a 20th century way of doing things. We're more than a decade into the 21st century. I say this as a business owner with a decade of sales & marketing experience prior to that. You can make the pure statistical data say or justify what you want it to say or justify, I've seen it happen several times.

I don't totally disagree with your point though @TNT713 , quick head-to-head online match-up play either ranked or unranked will most likely continue to dominate the realm of Madden online game playing. I don't think anyone could argue that point nor would criticize development time on that are of game play.

But a "community" feature built into the game? C'mon man, that's code for the internet and they're trying to capitalize on the internet ++ Madden. There are already Madden communities out there, big and small. Props to OS but I'd rather dev time spent somewhere else than putting their like in the game in some halfheartedly way.

Online Franchise game play and how successful it could or could not be or how many people could, would, should be playing is a chicken and the egg scenario. As a long, long time Madden player (been here since Madden 1) to me looking in, there has not been a serious development focus on online franchise game play since the feature was introduced back in the PS2 days. In more ways than one, Online Franchise play is less robust and less feature filled than it used to be. That's the truth.

A last truth at the end of a waaaay too long post (yeah, a bit passionate about Madden and O.F.) is that until there is a serious commitment to develop a truly robust and functioning Online Franchise mode, that's at the very least equal to it's Offline sibling, all of us and Tib/EAS have absolutely no idea how many people could play, would find it engaging or should impact overall sales. And if it's robust enough, scheduling conflicts because I have to nab my wife at the airport in a 3 man or 32 man Online Franchise I don't think would crack the top 25 of complaints.
 


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